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Ultra Member
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Sep 11, 2020, 04:59 PM
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the only thing in your comment that is human caused is the wild fires due to poor land management .
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Jobs & Parenting Expert
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Sep 11, 2020, 05:18 PM
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Originally Posted by tomder55
the only thing in your comment that is human caused is the wild fires due to poor land management .
And how would YOU have managed the land? Swept (raked?) the forest floor?
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Uber Member
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Sep 12, 2020, 06:44 AM
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You guys are signed on as well. I wish we would learn to mind our own business. Any intervention we provide will be roundly criticized and completely unappreciated. Perhaps we should encourage the Aussies, Japanese, and India to pony up with enough funding to defend themselves rather than counting on us to do it for them.
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Ultra Member
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Sep 12, 2020, 10:01 AM
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I'm all for a Quad alliance . It is going to take a coalition to stop China's aggression. It will be too late if we wait for them to expand to our back yard . Did Tibet have a chance to defend themselves against Chinese occupation ? Can all the countries in the South China Sea defend themselves against China ? Australia knows the Chinese are coming after them for their minerals .While the Chinese were weaker they settled for trade agreements . They don't want to rely on the uneven trade practices they have gotten away with .They are approaching the day where they will be able to take what they want . See the 9 dash line to understand that the Chinese could care less about legitimate internationally recognized borders . The US cannot afford to look the other way . Too much shipping freight travels through the South China Sea .
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Uber Member
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Sep 12, 2020, 10:11 AM
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The US cannot afford to look the other way .
I get your point and it's a valid one, but we cannot continue to overspend by a trillion dollars a year. A day of reckoning is coming. I'm not convinced we can afford to join this when the other three countries are relying on us to keep from having to pull their own weight in defense. We spend 3.4% of GDP on defense. India is at 2.4%, Australia is 1.9%, and Japan less than 1%. That needs to be set right. China, by the way, is at 1.9%.
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Ultra Member
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Sep 12, 2020, 01:04 PM
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The spending is a valid point . That has been Trump's beef with the NATO nations . I'll take them one at a time . India .They were non-aligned during the Cold War ,often in the Soviet block As a result we ended up in alliances with nations that were against our interest like Pakistan . India comes from the Anglosphere and should be a natural ally with us .They are the world's largest democracy and are uniquely situated geographically to put an instant stop to Chinese ambitions . This is why the President has put such an emphasis in forging a good relationship with Indian PM Modi .
Japan . I am unsure where they will go now that Abe has announced his retirement . Their defense spending is the result of the end of WWII and our dictate that they don't spend on military. That arrangement is out of date . Japan under Abe was taking the steps to increase their military budget and commitments .They have actively participated in Operation Enduring Freedom in Afghanistan . They are on the flank of the 1st island chain containing China's ambition to expand out to the deep Blue Pacific .
Australia clearly underspends on it's military and they know it . June they announced a 40% increase in spending . They recognize the China threat they are facing , and PM Morrison knows it . Australia has ponied up and has had troop commitments and casualties in every conflict we have been involved in for the last 100 years ....and they purchase tons of US military hardware (including that pig the F-35 ....their 1st squadron will be operational next year . ) Some of our most sensitive military training happens in Australia . We joint operate the Pine Gap satellite surveillance base where NSA Echelon basically spied on the world . Economically we are joined at the hip .We are the largest investor in Australia ;and we are also Australia's largest destination for foreign investment . We share their commitment to western democratic governance and institutions . We share their values more than with any other nation .....a commitment to the rule of law, religious liberty, free speech ;debate that provides the foundation for prosperity and security. If I was forced to live anywhere else on the planet ,Australia would be my destination (despite all their flaws like gun control.) China cannot be a wedge in this special relationship.
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Uber Member
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Sep 12, 2020, 01:22 PM
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June they announced a 40% increase in spending .
That is sure a move in the right direction. They have historically been very competent.
Economically we are joined at the hip .
Except that our hip is greatly larger than theirs. But they are certainly a natural ally.
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Ultra Member
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Sep 12, 2020, 03:39 PM
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Thanks for the vote of confidence Tom but we don't get involved in the conflicts of others for the sake of it and with the CV19 contraction I'm sure our spending is a bigger percentage of the national take because a percentage of GDP is just a meaningless statistic, the question is what bang do you get for your buck
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Uber Member
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Sep 12, 2020, 04:40 PM
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Percentage of gdp is how it’s done. Practically everyone spends less than us but then just expect us to make up the difference. And saying “Thanks,” is a rarity.
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Ultra Member
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Sep 12, 2020, 06:43 PM
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Originally Posted by jlisenbe
Percentage of gdp is how it’s done. Practically everyone spends less than us but then just expect us to make up the difference. And saying “Thanks,” is a rarity.
The real question is why do you spend as much as you do? Why do you feel the need to dominate the world with your military might? Ok, you have been attacked a couple of times in your history and your history has been a turbulent one of both internal and external conflict but you have no enemies on your borders. Because we have no enemies on our borders we don't feel the need to build up our military power and maintain a standing military numbering millions and you criticise us because we don't do as you do as if you are the standard by which we should measure ourselves. What does the Bible say about those who measure themselves by themselves? it does not say you are wise
Certainly, when they measure themselves by themselves and compare themselves to themselves, they show how foolish they are. 3. 1 Thessalonians 4:11-12
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Uber Member
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Sep 12, 2020, 07:04 PM
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You miss the point. I'm the one advocating that we mind our own business and let you guys take care of yourselves, or at least until you are willing to do what it takes to defend yourself. It does strike me as strange for a country with "no enemies on our borders" to be so eager to enter into a defense alliance with us, India, and Japan. Now if the Chinese show up someday, I will be happy to tell you to call someone else for help.
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Ultra Member
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Sep 12, 2020, 07:51 PM
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Originally Posted by jlisenbe
You miss the point. I'm the one advocating that we mind our own business and let you guys take care of yourselves, or at least until you are willing to do what it takes to defend yourself. It does strike me as strange for a country with "no enemies on our borders" to be so eager to enter into a defense alliance with us, India, and Japan. Now if the Chinese show up someday, I will be happy to tell you to call someone else for help.
We have been in a defence alliance with you for 70 years or more. We were one of the allies in WWI and WWII, something you seem to forget, as you conveniently do that we were fully committed in both wars before you got off your collective arses, so don't talk to us about holding up our end, we have done that for more than a century. We lack the population you enjoy so our committments seem modest to you, but our committment to our own defence is not small but tempered by both our financial resources and our population. We had a million under arms in WWII, a very large percentage of our population, so when it comes down to it we make the sacrifice, but we do not go around telling other nations how much they should spend on acquiring arms, most of which you provide. We are not slaves to your military-industrial complex
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Uber Member
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Sep 12, 2020, 08:35 PM
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Have it your way. I am not deriding you guys, but I am saying I am tired of anyone and everyone thinking they have some claim to our help when they are funding their own defense at a rate that's half of ours and seem to delight in expressions such as "before you got off your collective arses." So my solution is for us to mind our own business as we sit on our arses with a balanced budget while you sink or swim on your own. It's like I've said before. We help other nations, and we get insulted in return. It gets old really quickly.
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Expert
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Sep 13, 2020, 04:14 AM
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I doubt the covid virus will allow for a balanced budget, any time soon, but has exposed all our weaknesses that have gone unaddressed and left us unprepared to meet it's challenges. Passing the buck is the new normal starting at the top. Playing it down has effectively dumbed us down.
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Uber Member
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Sep 13, 2020, 05:04 AM
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We haven't had a balanced budget in twenty years. The virus is just the latest excuse.
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Ultra Member
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Sep 13, 2020, 06:39 AM
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Originally Posted by jlisenbe
Have it your way. I am not deriding you guys, but I am saying I am tired of anyone and everyone thinking they have some claim to our help when they are funding their own defense at a rate that's half of ours and seem to delight in expressions such as "before you got off your collective arses." So my solution is for us to mind our own business as we sit on our arses with a balanced budget while you sink or swim on your own. It's like I've said before. We help other nations, and we get insulted in return. It gets old really quickly.
Balanced budget, that concept eludes you, even if you stopped all your military expenditure that wouldn't go half way to balancing your budget. As to you minding your own business, another concept that eludes you. You guys have splinters in your bum from sitting on the fence and when you do get off it, recently you have been getting off on the wrong side. We are allies but nothing says if you pick a fight we have to support you
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Uber Member
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Sep 13, 2020, 07:09 AM
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Like I said. Have it your way. Honestly, sometimes I think nothing would delight me more than to see arrogant little nations like yours getting clobbered while we get to set that one out as opposed to spilling American blood for a group that has no gratitude and only a boatload of criticism. Now I know we likely won't do that, but it would certainly be justice in action.
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Ultra Member
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Sep 13, 2020, 07:11 AM
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Originally Posted by talaniman
I doubt the covid virus will allow for a balanced budget, any time soon, but has exposed all our weaknesses that have gone unaddressed and left us unprepared to meet it's challenges. Passing the buck is the new normal starting at the top. Playing it down has effectively dumbed us down.
Did you expect anything different from the guy you call dufus, he is as dumb as three wooden planks layed end on end as the scots would say. he obviously thinks you are as dumb as he is and just maybe he has a point
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