Ask Experts Questions for FREE Help !
Ask
    dwashbur's Avatar
    dwashbur Posts: 1,456, Reputation: 175
    Ultra Member
     
    #1

    Aug 24, 2020, 08:21 AM
    Did Paul Goof?
    Acts 21:4 says that a group of disciples told Paul, through the Spirit, not to go to Jerusalem. Agabus said the same thing in very dramatic terms. Paul went anyway.
    Yeah, he got a free trip to Rome out of it...eventually...was he supposed to stay away and do something else?
    It always makes me wonder, and today's Greek reading didn't help any thanks to this verse and its context.
    jlisenbe's Avatar
    jlisenbe Posts: 5,019, Reputation: 157
    Uber Member
     
    #2

    Aug 25, 2020, 07:33 AM
    That's a great question. I have wondered the same thing many times. It does pay to remember, however, what he said later in Acts 20. "“And now, compelled by the Spirit, I am going to Jerusalem, not knowing what will happen to me there. 23 I only know that in every city the Holy Spirit warns me that prison and hardships are facing me. 24 However, I consider my life worth nothing to me; my only aim is to finish the race and complete the task the Lord Jesus has given me—the task of testifying to the good news of God’s grace."

    So his conclusion seemed to be that the Holy Spirit, rather than telling him not to go, was simply alerting him that it was going to be difficult.
    dwashbur's Avatar
    dwashbur Posts: 1,456, Reputation: 175
    Ultra Member
     
    #3

    Aug 27, 2020, 08:37 AM
    Good point, but I'm still having trouble with the other disciples telling him, through that same Spirit, not to go. It almost sounds like contradictory messages, which is the part that's tickling my brain. Fortunately, I like this kind of brain tickling much better than the kind that COVID-19 test did...

    I confess I expected more discussion on this one.
    Wondergirl's Avatar
    Wondergirl Posts: 39,354, Reputation: 5431
    Jobs & Parenting Expert
     
    #4

    Aug 27, 2020, 09:18 AM
    So the Spirit told the disciples to urge Paul NOT to go to Jerusalem, yet Paul said he was COMPELLED to go by that same Spirit.

    What am I missing here? Did the disciples or Paul misunderstand what the Spirit said? And why would the Spirit send Paul to what eventually became his death?
    jlisenbe's Avatar
    jlisenbe Posts: 5,019, Reputation: 157
    Uber Member
     
    #5

    Aug 27, 2020, 08:01 PM
    I would suspect that Paul, being much more the mature Christian, understood that the Spirit's message was to warn him of what lay ahead rather than prohibiting him going. The historical narrative aspect simply is saying what the people understood the Holy Spirit to be saying as opposed to the what the message was intended to be. The people could well have understood the Spirit to be saying that severe trouble lay ahead, and in their love for Paul they would have assumed that meant he should not go. He understood better.

    One way or the other, it certainly turned out to be accurate. I wonder if those people walked around the next couple of years saying, "We warned him not to go." But it's not to say the time was wasted. I think Luke, for instance, used that time to write the Gospel of Luke. Being right there in Jerusalem would have been a god-send for him. At the very least, he was able to gather a lot of information.
    dwashbur's Avatar
    dwashbur Posts: 1,456, Reputation: 175
    Ultra Member
     
    #6

    Sep 1, 2020, 08:11 AM
    WG:
    As I said, he got a free trip to Rome out of it. Sort of convoluted and it took many years to get there, and when he did it didn't turn out so well for him, but he got a free trip.
    That's the best I can come up with.
    jlisenbe's Avatar
    jlisenbe Posts: 5,019, Reputation: 157
    Uber Member
     
    #7

    Sep 1, 2020, 10:05 AM
    Paul had a little different POV than most of us. Then Paul answered, “Why are you weeping and breaking my heart? I am ready not only to be bound, but also to die in Jerusalem for the name of the Lord Jesus."

    We tend to want to stay alive and prosper. He simply wanted to be in God's will for him.
    dwashbur's Avatar
    dwashbur Posts: 1,456, Reputation: 175
    Ultra Member
     
    #8

    Sep 5, 2020, 08:14 AM
    Paul had a little different POV than most of us. Then Paul answered, “Why are you weeping and breaking my heart? I am ready not only to be bound, but also to die in Jerusalem for the name of the Lord Jesus."

    We tend to want to stay alive and prosper. He simply wanted to be in God's will for him.
    He had already endured things that would reduce most of us to soggy Corn Flakes. My issue is the people told him "by the Spirit" not to go. Paul said he was compelled by that same Spirit to go. Either the Holy Spirit contradicted himself, or somebody was mistaken.

    That's my issue.
    jlisenbe's Avatar
    jlisenbe Posts: 5,019, Reputation: 157
    Uber Member
     
    #9

    Sep 5, 2020, 08:26 AM
    Pretty sure God did not contradict Himself.
    Wondergirl's Avatar
    Wondergirl Posts: 39,354, Reputation: 5431
    Jobs & Parenting Expert
     
    #10

    Sep 5, 2020, 12:24 PM
    Several commentaries explain it this way: "The inspiration in the case was that of admonition and warning, not of positive command [by the Spirit]. Paul was simply apprised of the danger, and was then left to the free determination of his own will. He chose to encounter the danger of which he was thus apprised."

    Another one says: "How timid is man, how fearless is God, about Scripture contradictions! The disciples at Tyre 'say to Paul through the Spirit, that he should not go up to Jerusalem.' Yet he goes. And when he goes, those who have heard the prohibitory voice of inspiration, say, 'The will of the Lord be done.' The one was the Divine voice of prudence; the other was the Divine voice of courage. Who shall say that either of these voices is not Divine? Would Paul have been guilty if he had followed the one? Was Paul guilty because he followed the other?"

    https://www.studylight.org/commentary/acts/21-4.html
    Athos's Avatar
    Athos Posts: 1,108, Reputation: 55
    Ultra Member
     
    #11

    Sep 5, 2020, 11:48 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by Wondergirl View Post
    Another one says: "How timid is man, how fearless is God, about Scripture contradictions! The disciples at Tyre 'say to Paul through the Spirit, that he should not go up to Jerusalem.' Yet he goes. And when he goes, those who have heard the prohibitory voice of inspiration, say, 'The will of the Lord be done.' The one was the Divine voice of prudence; the other was the Divine voice of courage. Who shall say that either of these voices is not Divine? Would Paul have been guilty if he had followed the one? Was Paul guilty because he followed the other?"
    What a wonderful example of the limitless capacity of man to creatively explain away the contradictions in the Bible. Breathtaking!
    jlisenbe's Avatar
    jlisenbe Posts: 5,019, Reputation: 157
    Uber Member
     
    #12

    Sep 6, 2020, 09:15 AM
    The limitless capacity of man to invent contradictions where none exist.
    Athos's Avatar
    Athos Posts: 1,108, Reputation: 55
    Ultra Member
     
    #13

    Sep 7, 2020, 01:05 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by dwashbur View Post
    My issue is the people told him "by the Spirit" not to go. Paul said he was compelled by that same Spirit to go. Either the Holy Spirit contradicted himself, or somebody was mistaken.

    That's my issue.
    It's an excellent issue. I encourage you to follow it. It's always a good sign when this board examines issues rationally, and not just repeats childhood stories.

    Christianity as it has come down to most of us badly needs to be re-thought so that the profound message of Christ can be presented where necessary to an audience that is rapidly discarding the stories meant to inform a pre-modern audience.
    jlisenbe's Avatar
    jlisenbe Posts: 5,019, Reputation: 157
    Uber Member
     
    #14

    Sep 7, 2020, 06:21 AM
    Strange position. We need to discard all the "stories meant to inform a pre-modern audience," but then we need to keep some unspecified portion of the story centered around a man being raised from the dead, and repeat the "profound message" which is found somewhere in that story? How can we find a "profound message" in a thoroughly unreliable and non-historical document, or in a particular story found in that flawed document? How would you ever know what portion of the story could be trusted to be authentic?
    InfoJunkie4Life's Avatar
    InfoJunkie4Life Posts: 1,409, Reputation: 81
    Ultra Member
     
    #15

    Sep 9, 2020, 01:43 PM
    Although I tend to agree that the Spirit gave advanced knowledge of the situation, my first read of this passage was less confounding. I took "through" as "by means of" and assumed a supernatural or collective experience of communication involving the Holy Spirit. Paul was later reminded by the Lord that he was yet to preach to the Romans, his time was not yet complete, these current plagues would befall him, and pass, and as with all miracles, would be used to demonstrate the glory of the Lord.
    dwashbur's Avatar
    dwashbur Posts: 1,456, Reputation: 175
    Ultra Member
     
    #16

    Sep 11, 2020, 09:08 AM
    "We need to discard all the "stories meant to inform a pre-modern audience,""
    That's not what Athos said. A. said that's what people are doing, not that it's something "we need" to do.

    InfoJunkie,
    Yes, he got a free trip to Rome out of it, which is the only way I can conclude his act wasn't necessarily dumb.
    But it doesn't resolve the question.
    jlisenbe's Avatar
    jlisenbe Posts: 5,019, Reputation: 157
    Uber Member
     
    #17

    Sep 11, 2020, 11:00 AM
    Christianity as it has come down to most of us badly needs to be re-thought so that the profound message of Christ can be presented where necessary to an audience that is rapidly discarding the stories meant to inform a pre-modern audience.
    I'm not sure how to get any other meaning from that passage other than the stories were meant (written and intended for this purpose) to inform pre-modern audiences. Sure sounds like it means they are no longer fit for modern audiences. Thankfully, it would be easy enough to clarify.
    Athos's Avatar
    Athos Posts: 1,108, Reputation: 55
    Ultra Member
     
    #18

    Sep 12, 2020, 02:18 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by dwashbur View Post
    "We need to discard all the "stories meant to inform a pre-modern audience,""
    That's not what Athos said. A. said that's what people are doing, not that it's something "we need" to do.
    Your reading comprehension is fine, dwashbur.

    May I refer you to "Religious Discussions" where I posted a question originating with you here on the Christianity board. You indicated you did not wish to answer it on the Christianity Board, hence the other board.

    I sincerely wish you would post on the question since it is essential to a proper understanding of Christianity, whether a believer or not. The thread is "The Nature of Salvation". Thank you.
    dwashbur's Avatar
    dwashbur Posts: 1,456, Reputation: 175
    Ultra Member
     
    #19

    Sep 13, 2020, 08:55 AM
    It may be a bit early in the morning and I haven't had enough coffee, but I can't seem to find it. Can you give me a link please?
    Athos's Avatar
    Athos Posts: 1,108, Reputation: 55
    Ultra Member
     
    #20

    Sep 13, 2020, 10:39 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by dwashbur View Post
    It may be a bit early in the morning and I haven't had enough coffee, but I can't seem to find it. Can you give me a link please?
    Sure.

    https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/religi...on-847531.html

Not your question? Ask your question View similar questions

 

Question Tools Search this Question
Search this Question:

Advanced Search

Add your answer here.


Check out some similar questions!

Goof fantasy movie suggestions? [ 2 Answers ]

I'm in loovvee with fantasy. But I'm kind of picky. I don't want "Lord of the Rings" style where it's a dark mood through the whole thing. I don't want something that is all wars. I want something almost childish and... pretty lol. I love spiderwick and I LOVE narnia.. but more so the books then...

Epi les paul standard plus top vs. Epi les paul custom vs. Epi les paul blackbeauty 3 [ 0 Answers ]

I just want to ask which is better? Epi les paul standard plus or epi les paul custom or epi les paul blackbeauty (3 pickups)? *** tell the difference between the three... tnx

Goof off odor in clothes dryer [ 2 Answers ]

In attempt to rid ink stain in clothes dryer, my husband used goof off. Now I can't get that fume smell out of the dryer. How do I rid the dryer of the odor?

Property Management GOOF! [ 1 Answers ]

I hired a property placer(finds tenants) for my home in California. He placed tenants lower than I agreed to in my home. Exchange money and keys for a six month lease. He did not verify the employment. Also he gave me less the deposit he was suppose to give. The tenants sign the lease for six...

Did Google goof up? [ 7 Answers ]

Note Google's header today: It's Braile. ... but it's got one too many dots on the first "G"! Here's the braile alphabet: http://www.kidlink.org/resources/braille.html


View more questions Search