[paraclete]

Elections are far too important for this silly kind of experimentation.

you sound like a Trump mouthpiece

[jlisenbe]

That's it? You have nothing of any more significance to say than that? Well, OK then. If you ever have any real answers to really important questions, feel free to express them.

That's why this board has become tedious. Ask serious, important questions, and that's what you get. "Oh, you are actually asking thoughtful, significant questions that I have no answers for, so you must be a Trump mouthpiece!!" Good grief.

[talaniman]

Still no answers. How will we know that the ballots arriving in the mail are coming from registered voters? How will we know ballots are not being intercepted in the mail? What will you say to the persons who say they never received a ballot, or who received three ballots? How will you ensure that voter roll addresses are accurate? Most of all, how will you handle the elections where a person loses a relatively close race and calls for a recount, and who can demonstrate that the system was unreliable? A recount, bear in mind, of ballots which we can't even say are entirely legitimate. I just kind of think we should answer those questions BEFORE we enter your brave, new world rather than twenty years afterward.

Forget the Post Office (which hasn't been particularly efficient in my lifetime) and forget the excuses. Go to the polls and vote. So simple, and it's been working for over two centuries. We have become so soft. We can go to the liquor store, but we complain about going to vote. The guys who went ashore at Normandy must be shaking their heads in shame and amazement. Elections are far too important for this silly kind of experimentation.

AGAIN, in many states all those questions and bugs have been answered and addressed and are no longer an experiment . I doubt they abandon all their efforts because other states have no clue and have never tried to move in that direction which is fine, just keep doing what you've been doing. This horse is already out of the barn in many places and the door is shut. Many more are moving in the same direction so no better time to accept the new ways than now because you could be left behind by your own choice.

There is another component to this new adjustment and that's the virus, an aging volunteer force to man those in person polls, for fear of the virus and old polling machines nobody can fix, and those long lines repubs seem to love in dem urban areas. Yeah I would say plenty of reasons to find a better way and everybody loves the mailman, and resent he is being denied the chance to do the job they have always done which is worthy of praise in any weather.

[jlisenbe]

Which states have been mailing out ballots to every registered voter for a general election and have had no problems? How did they make sure that the ballots were only received and sent back in by registered voters?

Your second paragraph does point out a genuine problem. A good answer might be to have polls open for two days rather than only one. Absentee ballots can be part of the answer. However, long lines are sometimes found in all kinds of communities. That's not a valid complaint.

[talaniman]

I can only speak for Texas where early voting starts in October I believe, but you can check Colorado, Utah, Washington state and Oregon as well as Iowa for their policies and procedures that have been both efficient and secure as far as I know. There are many more.

Long lines are a valid complaint if you have to work, care for kids, old (Like my out of shape arse! 8D), or sick.

[jlisenbe]

OK. So you don't know of a single place other than "as far as you know"? Sorry. That's not reassuring. No state has yet used mail out voting in a national, general election. Period. The five states you listed are going to do it this November assuming the courts allow it. I still don't know, and evidently neither does anyone on this board, the answers to the questions I have posed.

Early voting is not the same thing. That's been around for decades. We're talking about just mailing out a ballot to everyone on the voter roll and letting them mail them back in. Early voting is typically on the level of absentee voting. Different deal.

[jlisenbe]

Here is one way it's being done. This sounds reasonable. They have your signature on file and validate signatures on each ballot. Ballots will not be forwarded to new addresses. Of course you still have to register and leave a signature on file. I'd like to know a little more about it, but it's at least a move in the right direction. More expensive to do, I would imagine.

https://www.kold.com/2020/07/07/fact...y-mail-ballot/

[talaniman]

https://www.newsweek.com/these-are-s...e-mail-1505245

"Before the pandemic struck the U.S., only five states—Colorado, Hawaii, Oregon, Utah and Washington—conducted their elections using a vote-by-mail system. Though all states allow voters to vote by mail in certain circumstances, before the pandemic 16 required voters to provide reasons for those preferences before their applications were approved. Those restrictions have been significantly relaxed over the past couple of months, with many states actively working to expand options for at-home voting in an attempt to limit foot traffic at polling places."

AND https://www.newsweek.com/vote-mail-a...vid-19-1495373

Like I said in some states the horse has left the barn and the barn door is closed.

[jlisenbe]

Same questions for those five states, and they are still unanswered. Only one county in Arizona has been shown to have what seems to be safeguards. You seem all too willing to let the horse out of the barn with no saddle, no bridle, no rider, and no idea if it's coming back or not. I have not been able to find how, or if, Colorado, for instance, insures that the ballots they receive came from registered voters. I did find out that you don't have to show proof of citizenship to register to vote. No surprise there.

[talaniman]

Your data is faulty,

https://leg.colorado.gov/bills/hb19-1156

BILL SUMMARY

In connection with current procedures permitting an elector to register to vote on or immediately prior to or on election day, the bill requires that the elector provide a form of identification that includes proof of citizenship.

[jlisenbe]

Based on the link you provided, that is a bill that was proposed in 2019 and was postponed indefinitely in committee. Look under the "bill history" tab. It seems it was never even voted on. You are legally required to be a citizen to register, but you don't have to provide proof of citizenship. That is exactly what I stated above.

"Colorado does not require proof of citizenship for voter registration."

https://ballotpedia.org/Voting_in_Colorado

[paraclete]

Based on the link you provided, that is a bill that was proposed in 2019 and was postponed indefinitely in committee. Look under the "bill history" tab. It seems it was never even voted on. You are legally required to be a citizen to register, but you don't have to provide proof of citizenship. That is exactly what I stated above.

"Colorado does not require proof of citizenship for voter registration."

https://ballotpedia.org/Voting_in_Colorado

I suppose the thought has never occurred to you that uniformity in rules regarding voting may have some advantage, a little something about universal franchise and knowing the law no matter where you are, you are afterall, first and foremost, a citizen of the USA, that has been a fact since the Civil War and this issue of state rules is just an inconvience

[talaniman]

Even if it didn't become a law, then the old law applies which is referred to the phrase "IN CONNECTION WITH..." MEANING THE OLD APPLICABLE LAW.

https://www.dmv.com/co/colorado/appl...or%20an%20SSN.

Colorado DMV state ID requirements mandate that applicants prove their identities, including date of birth and state residency. Applicants must also supply valid Social Security Numbers or evidence of ineligibility for an SSN. Finally, they must prove that they are citizens of the United States, or are otherwise legally present in the country.

[jlisenbe]

Come on, Tal. We can read here. DMV. Department of Motor Vehicles. That's talking about getting a driver's license type of ID, not voter registration. And even for that you don't have to prove citizenship. Your own quote showed that clearly. "...or are otherwise legally present in the country."

It's a simple truth. You don't have to provide proof of citizenship to register to vote in Colorado. That's why some group introduced the bill. They wanted to change the situation, and the Colorado legislature, run by democrats, wouldn't even vote on it. That is shown by the link you provided.

[talaniman]

https://www.dmv.org/co-colorado/voter-registration.php

You cannot register to vote without an ID which requires among other things a proof of citizenship.

"In order to register to vote in Colorado, you must be:

• A United States citizen.
• A Colorado resident who has lived in the state for at least 22 days before the election in which you plan to vote.
• At least 18 years old by the date of the next election."

[jlisenbe]

You are still in the DMV site. DEPARTMENT OF MOTOR VEHICLES!!! You don't have to have their DMV ID to register.

I really don't know how else to put it. The ballotopedia site I linked above says it pretty clearly.

"Verification of citizenship

See also: Laws permitting noncitizens to vote in the United States

Colorado does not require proof of citizenship for voter registration."

Even your own link above showed it clearly when speaking of the DMV ID card. "Finally, they must prove that they are citizens of the United States, or are otherwise legally present in the country."

I am not suggesting that Colorado is allowing illegals to vote by the hundreds of thousands, but it would certainly seem to be pretty logical to require proof of citizenship to register to vote. It is important.

[talaniman]

Federal law says that only citizens can vote in a national election, even though states allow some non-citizens to vote in some local elections.

[jlisenbe]

Federal law also says illegals cannot be employed. How's that working out? Saying you must be a citizen to vote is one thing. Ensuring that only citizens can register is a different story. Wouldn't requiring a SS card and photo ID to register be fairly logical?

[Wondergirl]

Which states have been mailing out ballots to every registered voter for a general election and have had no problems? How did they make sure that the ballots were only received and sent back in by registered voters?

Ballots haven't even been printed yet. I called our county board of election commissioners yesterday to find out how this is being handled. I was told ballots in Illinois will be mailed out on or slightly before October 24th only to registered voters who have properly filled out and returned an application. When ballots are mailed in to the county, they will be checked and doublechecked for duplication. I asked if my application has been received yet. He verified my name, rank, and serial number (i.e., my personal information on file), and yes, I am on the mailing list to receive a ballot. ONE ballot.

Here is one way it's being done. This sounds reasonable. They have your signature on file and validate signatures on each ballot. Ballots will not be forwarded to new addresses. Of course you still have to register and leave a signature on file. I'd like to know a little more about it, but it's at least a move in the right direction. More expensive to do, I would imagine.

My signature is on file and I had to sign the application for a ballot. I will be sent ONE ballot.

[talaniman]

Federal law also says illegals cannot be employed. How's that working out? Saying you must be a citizen to vote is one thing. Ensuring that only citizens can register is a different story. Wouldn't requiring a SS card and photo ID to register be fairly logical?

Don't ask me why there are 50 different ways of doing things surrounding state and local functions or why not everyone has the same logic or levels of enforcement. Frankly I have a hard enough time dealing with my own state government and meeting requirements they demand to function lawfully.