[tomder55]

it's the Jacobins . Robespierre whipped them into a frenzy and they guillotined everyone who opposed them . Eventually they guillotined Robespierre also . Think Gotham when Bane took control of the city ........"We take Gotham from the corrupt! The rich! The oppressors of generations who have kept you down with myths of opportunity, and we give it back to you... the people. Gotham is yours. None shall interfere. Do as you please. Start by storming Blackgate (Bastille ), and freeing the oppressed(the dope from Park Slope emptying Ryker's ) ! Step forward those who would serve. For an army will be raised. The powerful will be ripped from their decadent nests, and cast out into the cold world that we know and endure. (Kangaroo) Courts will be convened. Spoils will be enjoyed(looting ) . Blood will be shed. The police will survive, as they learn to serve true justice(defund ) . This great city... it will endure. Gotham will survive!"

[tomder55]

......or they could be the American Taliban .Leftists take out Democrats. Progressives take out liberals. Socialists take out progressives , and soon socialists will be taken out by hard leftists, Communists, anarchists, and nihilists. Only Antifa will emerge as pure. The moderate Dems including Quid Pro Joe are having a collectiveapology conga line for their past centrism, in fear of being politically guillotined. It is reported that Sandinista Bill had to answer to his daughter for his white privilege. Kamala Harris is bowing to All Out Crazy's agenda ,including the green new deal and apologizing for he past support for tough and necessary law enforcement . The Clintoons had better watch their back . They fail on multiple counts on the new purity test .
The Taliban destroyed history in an effort to purge Afghanistan culture so it can easily absorb their ideas of what a pure Afghan society should be . This week a statue of a confederate officer was knocked down in Kentucky who later became a US Army General after the war and became a great friend and advocate of Blacks and he even supported the suffragette movement . But you know ,he did not pass that purity test . So if he is forever condemned then Quid Pro Joe should also be condemned forever for his support of legislation that put thousands of minorities in jail ...... right ?

[paraclete]

Tom, I have no doubt there are many who don't pass the purity test, not sure I would although I have never been a slave owner of fought in ultra conservative causes, but there is no doubt there are many who will not forgive the mistakes of history because they have skin in the game that we do not. For them, it is personal, no matter how many generations have passed. Whether the race be jew or African, or some other persecuted minority injustice will never be paid for until they can subject others to the same vile deeds.

As One Australian Senator reminds the Parliament; "all lives matter" because it is justice that must be available to all, let us remember that the actions of a few deserve condemnation but the whole community must not pay the price

[talaniman]

There are and always will be a group that wants something and willing to go to extremes to get it, but you wouldn't have to hear about black lives matter if you truly believed all lives matter. It's like the words of the founding documents all men were created equal except slaves and other low class people. Changes have been made and more to come. You know the old saying...pay me now, or pay me (MORE) later...and the interests builds. You don't have to listen though, but you won't ignore, or dismiss.

Antifa is but the latest whipping boy to compare others we don't like too, and for sure they are dangerous nuts. Where's Batman when you need him? Who broke the bat signal?

[paraclete]

Bat signal, fantacy won't get you out of this one, there is no Superman upholding the american way and shouting about truth and justice. Not sure he would want to

[talaniman]

Dreams are the American way Clete, as are the nightmares of the loonies.

[tomder55]

"all lives matter" Clete this comment disqualifies you in purity test

[tomder55]

There are and always will be a group that wants something and willing to go to extremes to get it, but you wouldn't have to hear about black lives matter if you truly believed all lives matter. It's like the words of the founding documents all men were created equal except slaves and other low class people. Changes have been made and more to come. You know the old saying...pay me now, or pay me (MORE) later...and the interests builds. You don't have to listen though, but you won't ignore, or dismiss.

Antifa is but the latest whipping boy to compare others we don't like too, and for sure they are dangerous nuts. Where's Batman when you need him? Who broke the bat signal?

Antifa proved my point by occupying a part of Seattle and putting up the equivalent of the French revolutionaries 'Barricades ' .
https://www.forbes.com/sites/jackkel.../#2eb7e26e73f8
From what I am hearing they are extracting tribute from local businesses in the occupied areas which makes them pirates . You know my answer .... as Napoleon said ...'give em a whiff of grape shot '. Why should they be treated better than the Branch Davidians ?

[talaniman]

https://www.foxnews.com/us/seattle-p...sses-extortion

Wonder why nobody has called 911? Kind of strange, but states rights prevail. Leave it to them. The next election will straighten this out. One way or another.

[tomder55]

The Seattle police abandoned their precinct . No it is not a state matter if the state is unwilling or unable to control insurrection . The Constitution is clear . The role of the Federal government is to 'insure domestic tranquility and to provide for the common defense . American citizens inside the so called 'autonomous zone ' are being held against their will and are being forced to pay tribute at the point of a gun . I could defeat these panty waists in 1 hr. Just cut off internet access to their cell phones.

They are in for the long haul . They planted a garden .

[paraclete]

"all lives matter" Clete this comment disqualifies you in purity test

Yes I don't see the point of pandering to 3% of the population, but it is different in your case, you don't live in a national park populated with special cases. You have a legacy that we don't have, our experience is different and therefore I don't see why we should be caught up in this hysteria when all lives matter here. We are not over policed, every person has some sort of income and health care, so I don't see how your purity test applies unless it is that I can say you fail mine

[tomder55]

I don't care too much either . I just think it is hilarious when they start eating their own like the Jacobins did when they eventually offed Robespierre because he could not pass the purity test . Take the latest example . Fiery liberal Dan Abrams had a great idea. He would host a reality show that would show what police work was really about . He is the son of civil rights lawyer Floyd Abrams and his progressive credentials are indisputable . His show 'Law and Crime ' was a smash hit on A&E and reached the top cable show in 2019 .His newest show Live PD was must see tv. It followed police doing their job for a half hour and the 2nd half hour was spent analyzing the police action . What they did right and /or wrong was openly aired . It was what everyone says they want ....transparency . It spoke an unspoken truth ;that cops are humans .It showed on live cam how tough their job is . But in the wake of the Floyd killing ,no show about cops can survive the pc world . We are living in a cancel culture and the left is calling all the shots . No cop show can survive. I don't even think McGruff the crime dog survives this Maoist cultural purge .

[paraclete]

yes we have had those cops shows here too where cops from various countries do their thing and none were shown killing anyone but real life is different to reality TV, not that cops often kill anyone here but it does happen and we will get a riot if that person happens to be black, but world wide riots, it just shows the power of the media. It just shows the power of gun legislation as black people are unlikely to be armed here and so we don't have black on black killing

[talaniman]

Comes down to how the law is applied and obviously the protests here are about the unequal application of the law and the racism at the root of it. Racism is also at the heart of the economic impacts on all peoples that are suppressed, oppressed, and exploited for profits. Not so much about race but class so it's no surprise we have those on both fringes getting attention for their radical antics and actions, rather than focusing on the issues involved that raise all boats.

[paraclete]

Comes down to how the law is applied and obviously the protests here are about the unequal application of the law and the racism at the root of it. Racism is also at the heart of the economic impacts on all peoples that are suppressed, oppressed, and exploited for profits. Not so much about race but class so it's no surprise we have those on both fringes getting attention for their radical antics and actions, rather than focusing on the issues involved that raise all boats.

In order to raise all boats first you must possess a boat, but when the one you have is leaky at best, you concentrate on bailing rather than fixing the leak, after your boat has sunk, as it has for so many in this pandemic, you get a violent response as all the anger is focused and race seems to be the focus. Minneapolis seems to be progressing to an interesting outcome, abandoning the traditional police force model, I will watch these developments

[talaniman]

Over the years many cities have used this different policing model to good success as a way to improve the trust between the cops and community by actually having a vested relationship between them. Local networks work better than private fiefdoms.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/th...?ocid=msedgntp

[tomder55]

yeah the big lie about Camden . My village could not afford a police force . So first it got rid of the police and their salaries and pensions and contracted with the county Sherriff Dept . That caused a dispute between the county and the township our village is in so now we pay the town the fee we paid the sheriff .We did not get rid of policing . We just shifted the responsibility around . We still get police protection and we still pay taxes for that purpose.

The misguiding headline suggests they 'got rid' of the police force Technically that is true . But that doesn't justly tell the story When my village could no longer afford it's own police force ,it outsourced policing to the county sheriff and township my village is in. It was budgetary concerns .Just like my village ,all they did was shift the burden around . No longer controlled by the primarily minority leadership of Camden City ;they shifted the responsibility to the county and state officials .The new force was called the Camden County Police Department (CCPD).The force level increased and the latest technology was introduced ,funded by Federal Grants and county taxes . NO Camden did not get rid of police .What they really did was subcontract the policing work to cops who now commute into the city instead of living there . 90 % of the city is minority . The police chief is white and there is only one black captain of the force out of seven.

But has it been a success ?

Camden ranks 10th nationwide in the most dangerous cities in America.
https://www.neighborhoodscout.com/blog/top100dangerous
And is in fact the most dangerous city in NJ.
https://patch.com/new-jersey/cherryh...ity-new-jersey
Besides that , the main reason crime dropped in Camden (besides nationwide trends) was that policies promoted by Christie led to population decline and gentrification in Camden. Less public housing ,less Section 8 housing and yes those community based policing initiatives . Those include those widely reported barbeques etc . They also include those police beat downs that don't make it into those articles with an agenda .
https://www.inquirer.com/news/inq/co...-20150425.html
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKef9hgOFio

Oh yeah and violent crimes in Camden get reclassified as non-violent at the country level .

So yes it is true that the CCPD has improved community relations with the people of the city . But that is only one side of the coin.

[talaniman]

In order to form a more perfect union....takes years, decades, and centuries. A lot of tries, failures, adjustments and baby steps.

[paraclete]

In order to form a more perfect union....takes years, decades, and centuries. A lot of tries, failures, adjustments and baby steps.

a forelorn hope, no union will be perfect and at times it has been obvious that the idea of a union may not be what the people want

[talaniman]

The point is you keep striving to improve, learning from what works well, and what doesn't. It's a process not an event. In the past much blood was shed when some didn't want a union...they lost.