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jlisenbe · Jun 30, 2020, 06:03 AM

I'll let you find your own truth JL, I've actually done my own homework.

I don't think you know, so why not just admit that you don't?

"a capricious wily nily decision" That one made me laugh.

This is a baby at 22 weeks and fair game in Virginia and several other states. If you are the doctor, what would your procedure be to kill this baby in the womb? Honest discussion opportunity is right here, Wondergirl. What are your thoughts on this?

talaniman · Jun 30, 2020, 06:33 AM

That's the way you right wing loons characterize what real people go through, so as usual it's you rattling off your own agenda, and dismissing facts that you don't agree with. That's fine, you do it enough where it's no surprise any more, so who cares what you squawk about? I get you hate all abortions and everything is an abortion in your book, but where are you for the women and families that do face the decision to not have that abortion? All you got is shunning, shaming, bastardizing, and maybe a bag of groceries and some gospel, but a dollar for long time medical needs, and post treatment care, where are you? Where is your commitment to mom/family and child for those future needs? When a child is 8 will you call a cop, or a counsellor when they exhibit behavior that goes against your notions of discipline? You have called a cop before and jailed juveniles.

So spare me the fake concern for the unborn child that only goes to further your domination of the least of us, using the authority to get in people's business, because you have a book that some ancient guy says that Jesus says so.

paraclete · Jun 30, 2020, 06:56 AM

Originally Posted by talaniman

So spare me the fake concern for the unborn child that only goes to further your domination of the least of us, using the authority to get in people's business, because you have a book that some ancient guy says that Jesus says so.

Tal, you are out of line, The Bible says not to murder and abortion is murder. Jesus said that love is the real law and abortion isn't an expression of love. Every child has a right to life and to deny that right is murder. A society that allows murder of innocents is a society that will eventually fail. Egyptian society that allowed murder of innocents failed, Jewish society that allowed murder of innocents failed, German society that allowed murder of innocents failed, Russian society that allowed murder of innocents failed. It is only a matter of time before other societies that allow murder of innocents fail. God is not mocked and his word does not return void

talaniman · Jun 30, 2020, 07:08 AM

Nice sermon, but abortions are legal in Australia too, so you are as murderous as the US, therefore will fall too. Now what?

jlisenbe · Jun 30, 2020, 08:15 AM

so you are as murderous as the US

At least you admit that it's "murderous". That's a start of sorts.

Athos · Jun 30, 2020, 09:33 AM

Originally Posted by jlisenbe

You don't know who Blackstone was. Enough said.

Enough said? Nothing to say about the other comments? That's the best you got? Lame, as usual.

If Blackstone is the author, that part you quoted needs to be updated - or ignored.

Athos · Jun 30, 2020, 09:38 AM

Originally Posted by paraclete

Every child has a right to life and to deny that right is murder.

I agree. But an UNBORN child is a fetus, not yet a child. A potential child, yes.

Jewish society that allowed murder of innocents failed, German society that allowed murder of innocents failed, Russian society that allowed murder of innocents failed.

Jewish society is thriving, as is German society. Russia not as much, but it's still around as a powerful player on the world stage.

Athos · Jun 30, 2020, 10:04 AM

Originally Posted by jlisenbe

At least you admit that it's "murderous". That's a start of sorts.

Do you propose women who have abortions be tried for murder?

A fertilized egg (zygote) has been discussed. Are you concerned why do so many fertilized eggs die? Are you supporting funding into the matter for research to prevent these deaths? Do you really believe a zygote has the same right to life as a three-year-old child? I doubt it.

Criminalization of abortion doesn't lead to fewer abortions. It leads to more women dying from unsafe procedures. The abortion rate is higher in countries that ban abortion than in countries that allow abortion.

(I'll skip over the fact that the original Jane Roe of Roe v. Wade was paid by fundamentalist pastors to lie about her experience with abortion and claim that she was pro-life. She did it for the money, she said).

talaniman · Jun 30, 2020, 10:07 AM

Originally Posted by jlisenbe

At least you admit that it's "murderous". That's a start of sorts.

You wish, Clete's comment was on murderous societies falling, so by that metric so will Australia fall. Stop twisting stuff.

jlisenbe · Jun 30, 2020, 10:39 AM

A fertilized egg (zygote) has been discussed

We discussed that you didn't know what it was.

Criminalization of abortion doesn't lead to fewer abortions. It leads to more women dying from unsafe procedures. The abortion rate is higher in countries that ban abortion than in countries that allow abortion.

You have data for that?

Saying that outlawing abortions does not decrease the number of abortions is about like saying outlawing murder doesn't decrease the number of murders. It's just nonsense as the chart below clearly shows. It also shows that, thanks to the efforts of pro-life groups, the rate of abortions has been steadily falling.

Stop twisting stuff.

I quoted your words exactly.

paraclete · Jun 30, 2020, 03:27 PM

Originally Posted by talaniman

You wish, Clete's comment was on murderous societies falling, so by that metric so will Australia fall. Stop twisting stuff.

Yes Tal we will all suffer judgement

Originally Posted by Athos

Jewish society is thriving, as is German society. Russia not as much, but it's still around as a powerful player on the world stage.

They have risen again

Athos · Jun 30, 2020, 03:34 PM

Originally Posted by jlisenbe

We discussed that you didn't know what it was.

No, YOU decided the discussion was about not knowing with your head up your arse as usual.

You have data for that?

The Lancet. A peer-reviewed medical journal.

Saying that outlawing abortions does not decrease the number of abortions is about like saying outlawing murder doesn't decrease the number of murders. It's just nonsense as the chart below clearly shows.

That's about the dumbest analogy you've ever made here. And you've made some really dumb ones.

The number of abortions in countries where abortion is banned is HIGHER than in countries where abortion is allowed. Not to speak of the enormously greater danger to the woman's life.

It also shows that, thanks to the efforts of pro-life groups, the rate of abortions has been steadily falling.

That's an argument for regulating abortion. Roe v. Wade.

You said the abortion rate is higher in countries that ban abortion than in countries that allow abortion. You have data for that?

Same place you got your chart.

talaniman · Jul 1, 2020, 11:22 AM

Abortion again? Or is the real issue telling someone else what to do using religion as the weapon to deliver the message? All the evidence says education and awareness of options have lead to a decline in the need for abortions, even among the poor, and the young, and that's at least a trend in the right direction, despite the preaching and screeching of the bully religious right that says nothing against the 10 commandments violating dufus who has shown no remorse for his transgressions and sins.

paraclete · Jul 1, 2020, 03:36 PM

Originally Posted by talaniman

despite the preaching and screeching of the bully religious right that says nothing against the 10 commandments violating dufus who has shown no remorse for his transgressions and sins.

No Tal Scripture says there is not one righteous, not one, so pointing out his sins just means we are also pointing at us. Do you think there might be a reason why religious thinking people might stand to the right?

talaniman · Jul 1, 2020, 04:10 PM

Because they are of a sect that is ultra conservative yet will forego their own values for a political agenda that promotes those point of views.

paraclete · Jul 1, 2020, 04:42 PM

Not everyone on the right is like that

Wondergirl · Jul 1, 2020, 05:05 PM

Originally Posted by talaniman

Because they are of a sect that is ultra conservative yet will forego their own values for a political agenda that promotes those point of views.

Yup. He gives them permission to make fun of, scorn, and even hate the "other."

talaniman · Jul 1, 2020, 06:30 PM

We all know who the other is.

paraclete · Jul 1, 2020, 07:32 PM

There are many "others" depends on where you are and on what side of the fence

talaniman · Jul 2, 2020, 05:40 AM

The others are not happy with the long history of suppression, oppression, exploitation, abuses and atrocities. The other side of that fence can no longer ignore and dismiss those complaints as they always have, because that just makes the complaining louder. You said it best here,

In many cities in the US there is chaos and mayhem blamed on police brutality, but it is a sign of a bigger problem. Draconian laws targetting the minority, the continued oppression of coloured and poor people and a system that relies on violence instead of goodwill and a frustration of a society ordered to shutdown

Very insightful, and a culmination of many things kept buried and hidden for a long time.