[Athos]

Me telling the truth? Remember Aquinas???

Remember Judas?

[jlisenbe]

One big difference. It applies accurately only to you. I am happy to stick with the words of Jesus.

[Athos]

I am happy to stick with the words of Jesus.

No, what you really mean is you are happy with the words in a book. You have no idea what the words of Jesus were. Even less have you understood his message.

[jlisenbe]

You have no idea what the words of Jesus were. Even less have you understood his message.

What an ignorant statement. On the one hand you claim that I don't know the words of Jesus. Now I quoted them repeatedly, so you are clearly saying that the text of the NT is not reliable and so the quotes cannot be relied upon to be accurate. OK, but then, having basically claimed that we cannot rely on the text of the NT, you claim His message can be understood. Wow. If we can't know what his message was, then how can ANYONE understand it? For that matter, if the NT is that unreliable, then why haven't you thrown yours away? Why would you care about what Jesus might have said or not said? You have closed the door behind yourself and locked yourself in. Oh this one is going to be great to show to youth groups! You are a never ceasing flow of valuable material.

[Athos]

What an ignorant statement.

As I've told you more than once, the words are mistranslated from the original Greek.

[jlisenbe]

Only the two or three that you happen not to like. And the fact that virtually no one who is an expert in the field agrees with you is pretty sobering.

[Athos]

Only the two or three that you happen not to like. And the fact that virtually no one who is an expert in the field agrees with you is pretty sobering.

You're certainly not an expert. You have never given a rational reply to the mistranslation. Citing others who have repeated the error is NOT a valid reply.

[jlisenbe]

Citing other people who are actually scholars and have spent a lifetime getting to know the subject is not a valid reply? Well, now I understand how you have arrived at this point.

[Athos]

Citing other people who are actually scholars and have spent a lifetime getting to know the subject is not a valid reply? Well, now I understand how you have arrived at this point.

Read my lips. Citing those who repeat the errors is not a valid reply.

[jlisenbe]

Read my lips. Refusing to accept the verdict of experts is sheer arrogance. But call them and offer your services. Might be tough. I'm pretty sure they have never heard of you.

[Athos]

I'm pretty sure they have never heard of you.

I'm more than sure they've never heard of YOU!

[jlisenbe]

Yeah, but I know it. I trust their expert knowledge. You are still under the illusion that you know better than they do.

[Athos]

I trust their expert knowledge.

You shouldn't be so trusting. Use a little of your God-given brain and trust in yourself. You might learn something.

[jlisenbe]

The deal is this. The word translated "eternal" bothers you. You have come up with an alternative translation as used by Robert Young. "46 And these shall go away to punishment age-during, but the righteous to life age-during." Now that's an extraordinarliy minorty translation, but even if we accept it, it presents several problems. 1. If hell is some temporary span, then so is heaven, for it is the same word in both instances. 2. Jesus still plainly says he is going to send people to hell, so you haven't solved that (for you) problem. 3. It is depicted by Jesus as a fiery place of torment for the unrighteous. 4. It was prepared for the devil, but if it's only temporary, then the devil himself will get out at some point.

So it seems that you are reduced to telling people that they should do whatever it is you think they should do lest they go to hell for merely an "age-during". Still doesn't sound good to me.

But even at that, the hundreds of committed scholars who have chosen to render the word as "eternal" trumps your two or three in spades. So if given the choice between believing you or believing them, I'm going with them. I think your argument for aionios is pretty lame (my word!), as is your dubious explanation for why nearly all scholars disagree with you.

Same thing with hell. Given the choice between believing you and believing what Jesus said, I'm going with Jesus.

[talaniman]

Sorry. Didn't see your comment. Did I see instances of racism? Some, but as far as negative impacts on the lives of my students, it was miles away from being the biggest problem. Fatherless homes was far and away the biggest problem. I would say that an insufficient emphasis on the value of learning, beginning as toddlers all the way to seniors, would be in second place. People would get upset about our state flag. Well, I agree it should be changed and voted in favor of changing it, but changing the flag will not change the direction or prospects of a single life. Creating strong families would do far, far more good.

It's not an easy thing to comfort those that have gone through traumatic life changing events, let alone guide them to good orderly direction, when they don't want to follow, for whatever reason. This isn't just a black problem, and all the conditions you criticize black people for are found throughout the society. I know it wasn't your intention to suggest only black people have the issues you cited, but I will note its suffered in America, and we have few solutions. Denying the results of racism or even acknowledging it though JL isn't a viable solution either.

I respectfully hope you can consider that despite 400 years of suppression and racist antics and tactics we continue forward and most black people will not fall for confessing our sins while we bear the sins of others. The same goes for the dufus claim of being our savior because we do have a lot to lose by listening to him sell us the snake oil. So I won't argue your observations, just your interpretations and approach to those observations.

Now send me some money for all those jobs black people did for free in building a nation and defending it always, while the whites take credit for it and enjoy the fruits of our labor, and to this day have no problem preaching about our problems and your solutions, instead of listening when we say your solutions are lip service to keep your knee on our necks literally.

Back pay for services rendered and cruelty and atrocities suffered, then maybe we can heal and move forward. No fruit accepted.

[jlisenbe]

all the conditions you criticize black people for are found throughout the society.

That is very true and I agree completely. Any group that wants to can make great progress by learning to value the things that are truly valuable.

Now send me some money for all those jobs black people did for free in building a nation and defending it always, while the whites take credit for it and enjoy the fruits of our labor, and to this day have no problem preaching about our problems and your solutions, instead of listening when we say your solutions are lip service to keep your knee on our necks literally.

And now the truth comes out. Why would I send you money? No one's knee is on your neck. But while we're at it, should you send money to the ancestors of the 350,000 union troops who died in the Civil War?

Back pay for services rendered and cruelty and atrocities suffered, then maybe we can heal and move forward. No fruit accepted.

Nah. If some level of reparations are paid, then it will be another excuse. That's the problem with never wanting to face up to your own problems. It's always someone else's fault. Someone else should do it for me. I can't do things by myself.

[talaniman]

That is very true and I agree completely. Any group that wants to can make great progress by learning to value the things that are truly valuable.

Okay! Just wanted to verify it ain't just black people with issues.

And now the truth comes out. Why would I send you money? No one's knee is on your neck. But while we're at it, should you send money to the ancestors of the 350,000 union troops who died in the Civil War?

What! They owe civil war soldiers too? Now that's bad. maybe the guys that started the Civil War should pay up. Oh wait you CAN"T! The south has been poor since they lost that war! They depend on welfare!

Nah. If some level of reparations are paid, then it will be another excuse. That's the problem with never wanting to face up to your own problems. It's always someone else's fault. Someone else should do it for me. I can't do things by myself.

Back pay is fair for the reasons I cited and let's just forget all the excuses for with holding payment for services rendered, blood shed, and sweat popped! Pay up you deadbeat!

[paraclete]

The deal is this. The word translated "eternal" bothers you. You have come up with an alternative translation as used by Robert Young. "46 And these shall go away to punishment age-during, but the righteous to life age-during." Now that's an extraordinarliy minorty translation, but even if we accept it, it presents several problems. 1. If hell is some temporary span, then so is heaven, for it is the same word in both instances. 2. Jesus still plainly says he is going to send people to hell, so you haven't solved that (for you) problem. 3. It is depicted by Jesus as a fiery place of torment for the unrighteous. 4. It was prepared for the devil, but if it's only temporary, then the devil himself will get out at some point.

So it seems that you are reduced to telling people that they should do whatever it is you think they should do lest they go to hell for merely an "age-during". Still doesn't sound good to me.

But even at that, the hundreds of committed scholars who have chosen to render the word as "eternal" trumps your two or three in spades. So if given the choice between believing you or believing them, I'm going with them. I think your argument for aionios is pretty lame (my word!), as is your dubious explanation for why nearly all scholars disagree with you.

Same thing with hell. Given the choice between believing you and believing what Jesus said, I'm going with Jesus.

Endless religious arguments again, this is not the religion discussion page. Yes, by all means go with Jesus and keep to the simplicity of the message. Jesus was not concerned about what the scholars of his day thought but kept to his message

[jlisenbe]

Pay up you deadbeat!

Funny. Go to work and become a millionaire. Stop expecting others to give you anything. To be sure, slavery was a terrible part of our history, but it's been gone for 150 years. Put the pedal to the metal and go!

[talaniman]

What part of back pay for services rendered are you not understanding? Seeking to ignore past actions of atrocity and cruelty is but an indictment of your inability to listen while you try to impose your solutions on those you dismiss and ignore.

The bigger act of cruelty is the unsympathetic and unapologetic manner in which you try to inflict your solutions on others. The bill for such actions has come do and none of your excuses means squat. Stop the preaching* and start reaching for that wallet** and una$$ some loot.***


*You JL specifically

**You JL should advocate for fairness and justice denied for centuries.

***Failure to pay up in a timely manner may be subject to further interest fees and legal actions.

This is an attempt to collect a DEBT and any information can be used to collect that DEBT!