[tomder55]

short sited . This is what I mean by making a treatment political . NIH and Novartis discontinues clinical trials not because they discovered anything wrong . They discontinue it because the anti-Trump luddites did so much bad unproven press about the drug that they were having trouble finding volunteers for the study as a result .

Clete ; the drug has been used for decades for a number of different treatments . Do you really think if the side effects you posted were an issue that the drug would still be on the market ? The fact is that almost all those side effects are manifest over long term care for things like rheumatoid arthritis and other chronic diseases it is used for . The treatment for C-19 is not a long term treatment . Either it helps in combination with other drugs and supplements or it doesn't . There is no way the long term side effects manifest themselves in c-19 treatment .

[talaniman]

You're beating a dead horse Dr. Tom, because the dufus FDA said otherwise. It was more a risk of disrupting the availability for those that need it and proven effective against those issues than as a corona treatment. They have already found a more reliable drug so who needs an unreliable one? That makes no sense.

[tomder55]

They have already found a more reliable drug so who needs an unreliable one?

says who ? There have been no clinical trials released confirming the Brit claim . You see what I mean ? You apply a completely different standard when there is a possibility of discrediting Trump . It was you who said there were no studies to back up the claims of hydroxychloroquine's effectiveness and yet you are ready to proclaim

dexamethasone the wonder drug answer. Well hold on there . According to the reports if they are true ,the steroid is somewhat effective for patients being ventilated or on oxygen . The treatment according to the report reduced deaths by 1/3 for patients on ventilators and by 20% for those on oxygen . Well at best that is a welcome reduction . But it is hardly the problem solved you make it out to be. For me it is all hands on deck . But the politics have made it almost impossible to do a fair test on hydroxychloroquine .
Lets make it clear ;it was the NIH that directed the FDA on this matter Novartis statement says

Novartis has terminated its sponsored hydroxychloroquine clinical trial for COVID-19 due to acute enrollment challenges that have made trial completion “infeasible”.The drug giant said that slow trial recruitment has made it unlikely that the clinical team will be able to collect meaningful data in a reasonable time frame
to determine the effectiveness of the drug in treating patients with the virus.
It was also stressed that no safety issues have been reported,

[jlisenbe]

You apply a completely different standard when there is a possibility of discrediting Trump .

Gosh. Seems like someone else here has said that.

[talaniman]

Standard is the same Tom, and the fact they have a better emergency treatment for a few people is hopeful rather than infeasible. I don't think I even mentioned the dufus in my last post, except to refer to his FDA that has made the aforementioned decisions.

I certainly could have and no doubt will in the future, but you and JL already know that.

[paraclete]

Clete ; the drug has been used for decades for a number of different treatments . Do you really think if the side effects you posted were an issue that the drug would still be on the market ? The fact is that almost all those side effects are manifest over long term care for things like rheumatoid arthritis and other chronic diseases it is used for . The treatment for C-19 is not a long term treatment . Either it helps in combination with other drugs and supplements or it doesn't . There is no way the long term side effects manifest themselves in c-19 treatment .

I was alluding to some of the more interesting side effects
paranoia, yellow skin, mental issues

[talaniman]

All drugs have side effects and can be dangerous so should be taken and administered by a professional. Side effects Tom can be and have been managed effectively in most cases but why you insist on this particular drug pushed and supposedly used by the dufus, as a viable option after the FDA has pulled the plug is beyond me.

I was alluding to some of the more interesting side effects
paranoia, yellow skin, mental issues

The dufus may be using ORANGE spray paint to hide yellow skin? He was already showing signs of paranoia and mental issues before he announced the dope he was taking.

[paraclete]

yes so the effects are multiplied

[talaniman]

Guess it doesn't mix well with diet coke.

[tomder55]

update ...............

https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/02/healt...n0SQBqdwqK5X-o

[talaniman]

Talaniman Rule- Be wary, be VERY wary of anything the dufus or his people tell you. Even the dufus medical experts regularly refute everything the dufus says.

[tomder55]

and this from the Association of American Physicians and Surgeons .... I am pretty sure I posted this before . It is worth posting again :

While people’s lives and jobs are being devastated by the coronavirus pandemic (COVID-19), and there has been no FDA-approved treatment, governors or state pharmacy boards in Nevada, Michigan, New York, Ohio, and Texas are issuing emergency orders to restrict which medications doctors can use to save lives.
These politicians have no background in infectious disease, medicine, research design, or epidemiology, yet they presume to dictate to front-line physicians who are reading the emerging research and caring for patients.

https://aapsonline.org/why-are-some-...irus-pandemic/

[talaniman]

I'm pretty sure frontline physicians can get desperate, but hospital policy probably limits what they can safely do, or what is available for them to even use, and even if they did use unapproved stuff, seems patients would have to relieve the hospital of any liabilities so it can get complicated. Personally until the evidence of SOLID trials comes through, this is a no brainer and that's what I wrote above.

The dufus is a bonafide snake oil salesman Tom, and that hurts whatever he is hawking with half a$$ed evidence. As well it should.

[tomder55]

12 consecutive studies have shown hydroxychloroquine to be effective in fighting COVID-19. Now a Yale epidemiologist says it is ‘the key to defeating’ the virus.

When this inexpensive oral medication is given very early in the course of illness, before the virus has had time to multiply beyond control, it has shown to be highly effective, especially when given in combination with the antibiotics azithromycin or doxycycline and the nutritional supplement zinc.
On May 27, I published an article in the American Journal of Epidemiology (AJE) entitled, "Early Outpatient Treatment of Symptomatic, High-Risk COVID-19 Patients that Should be Ramped-Up Immediately as Key to the Pandemic Crisis." That article, published in the world's leading epidemiology journal, analyzed five studies, demonstrating clear-cut and significant benefits to treated patients, plus other very large studies that showed the medication safety........

Since publication of my May 27 article, seven more studies have demonstrated similar benefit. In a lengthy follow-up letter, also published by AJE, I discuss these seven studies and renew my call for the immediate early use of hydroxychloroquine in high-risk patients. These seven studies include: an additional 400 high-risk patients treated by Dr. Vladimir Zelenko, with zero deaths; four studies totaling almost 500 high-risk patients treated in nursing homes and clinics across the U.S., with no deaths; a controlled trial of more than 700 high-risk patients in Brazil, with significantly reduced risk of hospitalization and two deaths among 334 patients treated with hydroxychloroquine; and another study of 398 matched patients in France, also with significantly reduced hospitalization risk. Since my letter was published, even more doctors have reported to me their completely successful use.

https://www.newsweek.com/key-defeati...pinion-1519535

https://academic.oup.com/aje/article...waa093/5847586

[paraclete]

Yes well Trump told us it is effective so we should believe him

[tomder55]

that statement illustrates the problem . The epidemiologist researched 12 recent tests that gave good results for C-19 patients if the cocktail is administered early . But it still becomes an issue that Trump promoted it . Imagine you doctor saying "the good news is that hydroxychloroquine could save your life from covid -19 . The bad news is that you will prove Trump was right . "

[paraclete]

yes that is certainly bad news

[talaniman]

I know politics and science don't mix, but I know the money dictates everything, and no doubt who has the money.

[Athos]

that statement illustrates the problem . The epidemiologist researched 12 recent tests that gave good results for C-19 patients if the cocktail is administered early . But it still becomes an issue that Trump promoted it . Imagine you doctor saying "the good news is that hydroxychloroquine could save your life from covid -19 . The bad news is that you will prove Trump was right . "

If this is true, why is it not accepted by the scientific community? The WHO has declared the INEFFECTIVENESS of the drug. Maybe that's why Trump stopped funding of the organization.

There is no strong scientific evidence to support the use of hydroxychloroquine for preventing or treating coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID‑19). While its use is not approved by the FDA for COVID‑19 treatment, from April to June 2020, there was an emergency use authorization for its use in the United States,^[50] and it has been used off label for potential treatment of the disease. On 24 April 2020, citing the risk of "serious heart rhythm problems", the FDA posted a caution against using the drug for COVID‑19 "outside of the hospital setting or a clinical trial". On 15 June, the FDA revoked its emergency use authorization, stating that it was "no longer reasonable to believe" that the drug was effective against COVID-19 or that its benefits outweighed "known and potential risks".

A randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled study of hydroxychloroquine in 821 participants found that it did not treat COVID‑19 infection, although the study had limitations. In June, use of hydroxychloroquine in the UK RECOVERY Trial was discontinued when an interim analysis of 1,542 treatments showed it provided no mortality benefit to people with severe COVID-19 infection hospitalized over 28 days.

The Henry Ford study recommending the drug has been questioned by epidemiologists.

The bottom line is that the drug is still controversial. Trump's take on the treatment has nothing to do with its effectiveness, but he should not be suggesting it without scientific proof. Remember Trump also suggested injecting disinfectant directly into the bloodstream.

[paraclete]

this is a bad case of we didn't think of it, however, it was only suggested as a preventative, not as a cure all. it is possible that in certain cases, such as an otherwise healthy person, it may be effective, however cv19 is a particular problem in those with health issues