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talaniman · Apr 30, 2020, 12:33 PM

1. Bad analogy, mine would be a question of manageability.

2. I doubt that seriously since you beleive in a weak central government, a weak social safety net, legalized stealing and profits over people. All things I have a great aversion too, but open to suggestions.

jlisenbe · Apr 30, 2020, 12:37 PM

2. I doubt that seriously since you beleive in a weak central government, a weak social safety net, legalized stealing and profits over people. All things I have a great aversion too, but open to suggestions.

Suggestions? Try getting out of your little liberal shell and start raising your voice for fiscal sanity. All of you liberals on this board are all too happy to fund your pet projects as long as you don't have to pay for it.

Wondergirl · Apr 30, 2020, 12:39 PM

Originally Posted by jlisenbe

Suggestions? Try getting out of your little liberal shell and start raising your voice for fiscal sanity. All of you liberals on this board are all too happy to fund your pet projects as long as you don't have to pay for it.

Which pet projects?

jlisenbe · Apr 30, 2020, 12:50 PM

Big government. Big social "safety" net. Big fed giveaways like this silly idea of sending out checks to everyone. Spending borrowed money like it's water.

talaniman · Apr 30, 2020, 01:18 PM

Please engage right wing loony rant font! Like repubs don't have pet projects or deficit funded tax cuts. Fine when repubs do it but sin when the dems did it?

Wondergirl · Apr 30, 2020, 01:41 PM

Originally Posted by jlisenbe

Big government. Big social "safety" net. Big fed giveaways like this silly idea of sending out checks to everyone. Spending borrowed money like it's water.

What are conservatives' pet projects?

jlisenbe · Apr 30, 2020, 01:49 PM

Good question. I suppose that many would answer national defense. I, not being your typical conservative, would say that we are all way past the point of being able to have pet projects.

talaniman · Apr 30, 2020, 02:52 PM

Right now we have a bug to deal with that's reeking havoc on the planet.

jlisenbe · Apr 30, 2020, 03:13 PM

that's reeking havoc on the planet.

I think it's our panicky response that is wreaking havoc.

Wondergirl · Apr 30, 2020, 03:16 PM

Originally Posted by jlisenbe

I think it's our panicky response that is wreaking havoc.

And calm ol' you suggests what?

talaniman · Apr 30, 2020, 08:53 PM

If you were in the woods unarmed and a big hungry grizzly emerged 10 feet away, your response may be panicky too. That's about where we are at. Fortunately there are some experienced woodsmen that know what to do, and are armed. We just have to listen to them.

The dufus ain't one of them though, no matter his title of president, he just plays one on TV, and off TV.

jlisenbe · Apr 30, 2020, 08:57 PM

He's been basically doing what your "experienced woodmen" recommend, so why are you complaining? I do know this. We cannot keep this economy throttled down.

talaniman · Apr 30, 2020, 09:07 PM

If you cannot shut the economy down for maintenance and safely restart it, then it was a sham economy in the first place, built on smoke and mirrors. Obviously we have had structural damage for a while that this virus has woefully exposed. Maybe that's a good thing if we pay attention, and fix the structural damage, shame we lose good people in the process.

We will either rise to the challenge or drown in our own crap. I'm hopeful we rise, rebuild, restart, and are better for it.

Originally Posted by jlisenbe

He's been basically doing what your "experienced woodmen" recommend, so why are you complaining? I do know this. We cannot keep this economy throttled down.

I don't think he has, but governors and mayors, some any way, have really stepped up and rallied the citizens.

jlisenbe · Apr 30, 2020, 09:33 PM

If you cannot shut the economy down for maintenance and safely restart it, then it was a sham economy in the first place, built on smoke and mirrors. Obviously we have had structural damage for a while that this virus has woefully exposed. Maybe that's a good thing if we pay attention, and fix the structural damage, shame we lose good people in the process.

About on the same level as suggesting that if I can't just shut my job down for several months for "maintenance" and then just pick back up like nothing happened, then my job was a sham. That's a crazy, crazy idea. Go back and look at the Great Depression and see how successful they were with this business of thinking it's really easy to "restart" an economy. Economies are not lawn mowers. You don't just shut them down for months and then turn a key and restart them. Small business owners are going broke by the hundreds every day. It will reach a point where even the feds can't borrow that kind of money.

Case in point and you can multiply this by thousands. https://www.clarionledger.com/story/...us/3060111001/

talaniman · May 1, 2020, 05:45 AM

I respectfully submit that it's not so crazy since it's the very real situation we find ourselves in because of the virus. Not an easy thing to restart, but like that lawnmower you have a process to follow that will get it started again. Maybe not as smoothly as we want, but doable. Challenging yes, doable certainly. Of course if you have never done it before and have no tools then even bigger challenge. I don't think you can ignore and dismiss as crazy such a challenge through the lens of difficulty or ignoring that the economy was shutdown because of the virus and not acknowledge until the virus is under control the economy cannot be restarted.

Yes some businesses may never reopen, but then again consider that the dead won't be brought back to life either. The longer it takes to control the virus the longer the economy will be sidelined, and the more people will die. Maybe we cannot borrow our way back to health and prosperity as we were before the virus, but I have never been through any life changing event with out making many permanent changes, and adjustment.

Have you? I think we all need to wrap our heads around the fact this may be just getting started and a lot more to come. The data suggests that, and we haven't seen any trend that says it's even close to being over any time soon. I believe in hope and hard work, rather than crying and hand wringing if you want to get the job done and have a positive outcome.

If we're as great as you say, then we need to get busy being about it, don't you think?

jlisenbe · May 1, 2020, 06:06 AM

since it's the very real situation we find ourselves in because of the virus.

No, it's not. This economy was not shut down for "maintenance".

Think "Sweden". Even your beloved WHO is now saying that Sweden is a good model. They did not panic like most of the world did. For that matter, look at South Dakota.

talaniman · May 1, 2020, 06:52 AM

You cannot ignore this virus has exposed many of our service delivery systems as inadaquate. Think of all those small businesses that are waiting for the money that was promised and appropriated and yet to materialize. Maintenance that could have and should have been addressed before the virus. Try driving your car or truck without oil changes and replacing worn tires and let me know how that works out for you.

South Dakota is just starting to deal with its growing hotspots

Sweden is a works in progress. As are every country. They are doing better than most without an official shutdown.

Neither of your examples show the 14 day downward trend experts say is a sign of control though Sweden demonstrably has slower rates of increase so far. I also noted this small fact showing how the Swedes addressed their population very differently than others have.

Again, on 11 March, the karensdag, the unpaid first day of sick leave, was temporarily discontinued in an effort to encourage people to stay home if they were experiencing symptoms consistent with COVID-19.

^[56]

On 13 March, the government decided to temporarily abolish the demand of a doctor's certificate for 14 days for people staying home from work due to illness (i.e. sick pay period). Previously a doctor's certificate was needed after seven days.

^[57]

Having functional systems in place to help the people is certainly a valuable asset. Compare that to the handling of those meat packing plants. HMMMM!

Athos · May 1, 2020, 07:11 AM

Just an observation --- the people on the ground - the medical people, the truck drivers and grocery clerks, all those who are out there as essential workers are heartening to see how truly heroic they are.

Then I look at the mess at the top. Trump says one thing one day, then something else the next day. He says an admiral and a general are in charge. Then it's Jared Kushner - a completely incapable, incompetent moron. This morning Trump said "I'm in charge". God help us!

The minority hotspots are disgraceful. A country as rich as ours should be doing better.

We desperately need a person to take national charge and coordinate all the efforts. What we do have is 50 people in charge effectively competing against each other raising prices and failing to slow the growth of the virus by a lack of national leadership.

Epidemiologists are now saying Trump's initial delays have caused massive damage economically and caused the sickness and death of thousands of Americans.

Meanwhile Trump gloats and smirks as he congratulates himself.

talaniman · May 1, 2020, 01:36 PM

The dufus now claims he has seen evidence that China is to blame for the virus, so he may have to retalliate, meanwhile we wait for them to send us MORE medical supplies, meanwhile the DNR has not concluded what the dufus has said. So why would he even be shooting his mouth off about this as the country is trying this reopen the economy experiment? Hope all those hunkered down work at home people enjoy their freedom, they certainly have the weather for it.

The dufus doesn't seem happy unless he is trashing somebody, or taking credit he doesn't deserve. One day he will tell the truth and nobody will believe him. The rollercoaster ride continues.