[Athos]

Reported today is the US intelligence community warning Trump that Russia is again interfering in the presidential election as they did in 2016.

Trump was reported in a rage hearing this, but the rage was not directed at Russia, it was against the US intelligence community. The next day Trump fired Joseph McGuire, the head of US intelligence and replaced him with loyalist Richard Grenell, a man with no experience in intelligence.

King Donald continues his spiral into destroying US democracy by getting rid of anyone who disagrees with him.

[tomder55]

I just love the Democrats sudden respect for the assessments of the intelligence agencies . As I recall they were not so fond of ther intelligence assessments in 2002 . To refresh your memory here was the NIA


https://fas.org/irp/cia/product/iraq-wmd.html

[Athos]

Last week Trump was informed by the US Intelligence community that Russia was again interfering with a presidential election like they did in 2016.

Upon hearing this, Trump flew into a rage, but not at Russia. His anger was directed at the US Intelligence community where, the next day, he replaced the head of the agency Joseph McGuire and replaced him with Richard Grenell, a Trump loyalist with no experience in intelligence.

Trump, to date, has not said a word of warning to Russia.

King Donald continues his downward spiral away from this nation's democratic government to a monarchy - and not a benign one. The Senate is lost, the House is half lost, and the Supreme Court is questionable. Let us hope Trump can do no more damage until November's election.

[Athos]

I just love the Democrats sudden respect for the assessments of the intelligence agencies . As I recall they were not so fond of ther intelligence assessments in 2002 . To refresh your memory here was the NIA


https://fas.org/irp/cia/product/iraq-wmd.html

The Democrats had the foresight to know that that entire WMD business was a pack of lies.

[tomder55]

even though most of them bought into it when Bubba was Pres

[tomder55]

“One way or the other, we are determined to deny Iraq the capacity to develop weapons of mass destruction and the missiles to deliver them. That is our bottom line.”
President Clinton, Feb. 4, 1998.“If Saddam rejects peace and we have to use force, our purpose is clear. We want to seriously diminish the threat posed by Iraq’s weapons of mass destruction program.”
President Clinton, Feb. 17, 1998.“Iraq is a long way from [here], but what happens there matters a great deal here. For the risks that the leaders of a rogue state will use nuclear, chemical or biological weapons against us or our allies is the greatest security threat we face.”
Madeline Albright, Feb 18, 1998.“He will use those weapons of mass destruction again, as he has ten times since 1983.”
Sandy Berger, Clinton National Security Adviser, Feb, 18, 1998
“[W]e urge you, after consulting with Congress, and consistent with the U.S. Constitution and laws, to take necessary actions (including, if appropriate, air and missile strikes on suspect Iraqi sites) to respond effectively to the threat posed by Iraq’s refusal to end its weapons of mass destruction programs.”
Letter to President Clinton, signed by Sens. Carl Levin, Tom Daschle, John
Kerry, and others Oct. 9, 1998.“Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the development of weapons of mass destruction technology which is a threat to countries in the region and he has made a mockery of the weapons inspection process.”
Rep. Nancy Pelosi (D, CA), Dec. 16, 1998.“Hussein has … chosen to spend his money on building weapons of mass destruction and palaces for his cronies.”

Madeline Albright, Clinton Secretary of State, Nov. 10, 1999.“There is no doubt that . Saddam Hussein has reinvigorated his weapons programs. Reports indicate that biological, chemical and nuclear programs continue apace and may be back to pre-Gulf War status. In addition, Saddam continues to redefine delivery systems and is doubtless using the cover of a licit missile program to develop longer-range missiles that will threaten the United States and our allies.”
Letter to President Bush, Signed by Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL,) and others,
Dec, 5, 2001.“We begin with the common belief that Saddam Hussein is a tyrant and a threat to the peace and stability of the region. He has ignored the mandate of the United Nations and is building weapons of mass destruction and the means of delivering them.”
Sen. Carl Levin (d, MI), Sept. 19, 2002.“We know that he has stored secret supplies of biological and chemical weapons throughout his country.”
Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002.“Iraq’s search for weapons of mass destruction has proven impossible to deter and we should assume that it will continue for as long as Saddam is in power.”
Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002.“We have known for many years that Saddam Hussein is seing and developing weapons of mass destruction.”
Sen. Ted Kennedy (D, MA), Sept. 27, 2002.“The last UN weapons inspectors left Iraq in October1998. We are confident that Saddam Hussein retains some stockpiles of chemical and biological weapons, and that he has since embarked on a crash course to build up his chemical and biological warfare capabilities. Intelligence reports indicate that he is seeking nuclear weapons…”
Sen. Robert Byrd (D, WV), Oct. 3, 2002.“I will be voting to give the President of the United States the authority to use force — if necessary — to disarm Saddam Hussein because I believe that a deadly arsenal of weapons of mass destruction in his hands is a real and grave threat to our security.”
Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Oct. 9, 2002.“There is unmistakable evidence that Saddam Hussein is working aggressively to develop nuclear weapons and will likely have nuclear weapons within the next five years . We also should remember we have alway s underestimated the progress Saddam has made in development of weapons of mass destruction.”
Sen. Jay Rockerfeller (D, WV), Oct 10, 2002,“He has systematically violated, over the course of the past 11 years, every significant UN resolution that has demanded that he disarm and destroy his chemical and biological weapons, and any nuclear capacity. This he has refused to do.”
Rep. Henry Waxman (D, CA), Oct. 10, 2002.​“In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological weapons stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear program.
He has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including al Qaeda members. It is clear, however, that if left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and chemical warfare, and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons.”
Sen. Hillary Clinton (D, NY), Oct 10, 2002“We are in possession of what I think to be compelling evidence that Saddam Hussein has, and has had for a number of years, a developing capacity for the production and storage of weapons of mass
destruction. “[W]ithout question, we need to disarm Saddam Hussein. He is a brutal, murderous dictator, leading an oppressive regime … He presents a particularly grievous threat because he is so consistently prone to miscalculation. And now he has continued deceit and his consistent grasp for weapons of mass destruction … So the threat of Saddam Hussein with weapons of mass destruction is real …
Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Jan. 23. 2003.

[Vacuum7]

Athos: I think President Trump is hell bent on changing the U.S. relationship with Russia. I think we all agree that the American-Russian relationship is archaic and needs to be addressed: We are effectively treating Russia today like we treated Russia in 1965 and Russia isn't even Bolshevik anymore. It is possible that Trump sees limited options in viewing an ever growing ChiCom threat: He can continue to treat Russia like a pariah and drive them into the ChiCom embrace OR he can work to drive a wedge between Russia and the ChiComs. I think Trump is looking at the potential of Russia as an ALLY, instead of a foe. Currently, the U.S. really can't say that they can rely on any nation if the ChiComs become belligerent....Russia has the natural resources the ChiComs seek and Russia has a the military might to counter ChiCom ambitions in the Far East.

Its possible we aren't see the whole U.S.-Russia dynamic and the true goals, from a U.S. perspective, of that dynamic.

[Vacuum7]

Athos: I think President Trump is hell bent on changing the U.S. relationship with Russia. I think we all agree that the American-Russian relationship is archaic and needs to be addressed: We are effectively treating Russia today like we treated Russia in 1965 and Russian isn't even Bolshevik anymore: Our relationship with Russia smells like a McCarthy era time frame...it looks like Trump wants that to end...we can't keep believing Russians are hiding in every closet, ready to jump out and get us. It is possible that Trump sees limited options in viewing a ever growing ChiCom threat: He can continue to treat Russia like a pariah and drive them into the ChiCom embrace OR he can work to drive a wedge between Russia and the ChiComs. I think Trump is looking at the potential of Russia as an ALLY, instead of a foe. Currently, the U.S. really can't say that they can rely on any nation if the ChiComs become belligerent....Russia has the natural resources the ChiComs seek and Russia has a the military might to counter ChiCom ambitions in the Far East.

Its possible we aren't seeing the whole U.S.-Russia dynamic and the true goals, from a U.S. perspective, of that dynamic.

[tomder55]

Vac be careful or you'll be accused of being a Russian bot . The new McCarthyites are the Democrats . They see Russians everywhere .
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QGgJPmOUmDU

[Vacuum7]

tomder55: Yes, I know, but I don't know why the Democrats are so anti-Russian now....the Democrats used to love Russia and Bill and Hillary Clinton visited Russia in the Vietnam conflict era to organize protests efforts for the war and Bernie Sanders honeymooned in Soviet Russia during on of his three marriage honeymoons.....so I really don't get why the Democrats are so anti-Russia now after loving them so much for so many years.

[talaniman]

I have always loved the soaring rhetoric and spin conservatives can put on things. Im truth the The WMD thing and the wholesale corruption of the meds for oil by darn near everybody still gave no cause for wholesale invasion or attacking Bagdad instead of all those military installations that were supposedly rebuilding delivery systems for whatever WMD's Saddam was supposeded to have. Bush dropped the ball by destabalizing the whole country and region. Count those continuing resolutions over the years to fund those efforts.

I can see working with Russia on many common interests, but if you don't see the difference between the Russian people and the dictator that rules them with his band of henchmen, I really don't know what to tell you folks except wear protection. Reagans words on the subject still ring true, Trust but Verify, and we know as much as we want a positive relationship with PUTIN, his actions make that really hard to say the least. Giving him a leg up in who our president is even a bigger mistake. I know our history, we have meddled in the affairs of others for a very long time with really mixed results and it's an old practice in the world, but let's get real since everybody has or will interfere on each others politics, seems to me we should be a lot better at it and a lot harder to have it done to us. We sure don't need OUR president shilling for PUTIN, and not looking out for US because it benefits him. TREASON? Your call, I have made mine.

I don't trust either of them and especially not in the same room! That has to be the ultimate stupidity, beyond foolish! Go ahead keep ignoring King Reagan and while your at it, turn in your Conservative ID cards, and get out of the liberals way.

[tomder55]

Trump has been much tougher on Russia then the emperor ever was ,or Evita would've been . That is just the verifiable facts . How many Russian soldiers were killed by US troops under emperor Zero ? The answer is zero . Trump authorized lethal aid to Ukraine ;something the emperor did not do . Trump enforced red lines in Syria ;something the emperor did not do . Trump has moved missile defense weapons into Poland . Trump encourages and has the US participate in war games on the Russian border . Trump has imposed much tougher sanctions on Russia . So if Vlad the invader thought he was getting a good deal with Trump then he is dumber than he looks .

This is all smoke and mirrors by the Dems . They hate Trump more than the Russians. If Evita was there we would be seeing more things like American uranium to Russia for donations to the Clintoon Foundation .

Quid pro quo emperor style ......

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0mgQaFlo_p8

[talaniman]

Nice spin Tom, but your verifiable fact only tell half the whole story, and while the Russian people may suffer most, PUTIN is still raking in his bucks for himself, his cohorts, and his military. The Ukraine debacle revealed some real verifiable facts, because Obama's international coalition took a long hard look at Ukraine before they sent them anything, and what they sent was more than just blankets, and you know it. The dufus sent anti tank stuff, and of course conservatives spin that as a big deal, but lets face it, it came with some dirty dealing and pressure to undermine the new government in favor of PUTIN. That too is a verifiable act, so lets not just ignore it, and cherry pick in favor of the dufus and his sycophants just because Moscow Mitch, and the boys gave the dufus an immunity from prosecution card he has used to clean house and purge his enemies both real, and perceived from his palace.

Keep cheering for the FIRST American dictator, who has completely run a coup on the repub party, and corrupted it like he corrupts everything he has ever gotten his hands into. Wake up conservatives! You aren't dealing with the Russian people, and NEVER will until PUTIN is GONE, and that ain't likely. A dictator and a snake oil salesman ain't a good relationship for anybody but them! AND that's the bottom line.

PS

A clip showing Obama and a different Russian president doesn't make your case either.

[Vacuum7]

Talaniman: What really is the difference between DEALING WITH RUSSIA and DEALING WITH THE CHICOMS? I think I can say that the ChiComs are EVERY BIT AS BAD as Russia in all the ways you say Russia is bad or evil. Xi is Putin! maybe worse because he is probably sneakier. Just because we have massive TRADE WITH THE CHICOMS doesn't make them good.

[tomder55]

Keep cheering for the FIRST American dictator, who has completely run a coup on the repub party,

By my count Trump is at least the 5th FIRST American dictator identified by the loony left (Nixon ,Reagan ,GWHBush ,GW Bush )That rhetoric ;as well as calling every Repub a Nazi or Hitler is real old .

Wake up conservatives! You aren't dealing with the Russian people,

Your hatred of Trump is leading to a very dangerous world .....much more dangerous than the last cold war . One way or another we have always "dealt " with the Russian leadership aka tzar . WE fought the commies in favor of the Romanov family

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/histo...war-180971470/

We allied with Stalin in WWII
Kennedy negotiated nuclear test ban treaties with Khrushchev.He also secretly removed nukes from Turkey
Reagan and the commie dictator Gorbachev negotiated nuclear arms treaties .
Clintoon installed the "elected " leader of Russia Yeltzin .
Putin is just the latest tzar .
So stop pretending that we ever dealt with the Russian people .

[talaniman]

No president to my knowledge has ever stood on the world stage and defended PUTIN while calling into question his own government specifically the intel community. I have never said we shouldn't work with the Russians, but do we have to slob on the guy, and ignore the bad stuff PUTIN does? Is it hatred to call out the bad stuff the dufus does?

According to conservatives it is.

[jlisenbe]

Obama said he told Putin he better "cut it out". With such strong language as that, I'm sure Putin stopped all of his activities. After all, when you're told to "cut it out", then that has to be chilling. I'll bet that's what Chamberlain told Hitler. "Adolf, you better cut it out, and I mean it!" No doubt Putin went back and told all of his henchmen, "Guys, we have to straighten up. Mr. Obama told me I better cut it out."

[talaniman]

As opposed to Russia if your listening help me beat Hillary! Worked so well he is trying for a repeat performance, and conservatives cheer, as the dufus cheats. No surprise since conservatives cheer when he lies, steals, and bullies even other conservatives who dare step out of line.

[jlisenbe]

Except, of course, that Mueller's report puts the lie to your statement. Even the dems in the House gave up on that one. You need to take the saddle off and move on. That horse has been ridden to death.

[tomder55]

only the dimwits would not recognize the sarcasm in his statement during the debate . I stand by what I wrote . If Putin backed Trump then he bet against his interests .

Now do I believe the Russians have meddled ? Of course . They were doing it years before Trump considered running . Do I believe an American political leader attempted to collude with Russia . You betcha