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jlisenbe · Feb 18, 2020, 08:07 AM

Scared cops use that to shoot first and figure it out later

If you'd been a cop a year or two, then I bet you'd have a different point of view.

talaniman · Feb 18, 2020, 08:16 AM

Originally Posted by jlisenbe

If you'd been a cop a year or two, then I bet you'd have a different point of view.

Perhaps but a well trained cop is not so prone to actions out of fear, so hopefully training will kick in before the fear. At least one would hope they are well trained to that level BEFORE they are let out on the street. If not, now that's a huge problem with a marked potential for disaster could we agree on that?

jlisenbe · Feb 18, 2020, 08:27 AM

I don't know of a police force that uses untrained policemen, but if one exists, then yes, that would be a great concern.

talaniman · Feb 18, 2020, 08:37 AM

Originally Posted by jlisenbe

I don't know of a police force that uses untrained policemen, but if one exists, then yes, that would be a great concern.

I have experienced a few, some more corrupt than inept though, and that's even worse. You've heard of stop and frisk? Well I grew up with stop and search back in the days of my youth and being a minority in a white town carries it's own experiences you never forget just driving outside your "assigned" neighbor hood.

jlisenbe · Feb 18, 2020, 09:38 AM

Well I grew up with stop and search back in the days of my youth and being a minority in a white town carries it's own experiences you never forget just driving outside your "assigned" neighbor hood.

Do you still experience that?

talaniman · Feb 18, 2020, 10:47 AM

Not personally so much, but it has been a conversation with my kids before, and now with my grown grand kids who are more than a bit angry at dealing with it. Their moms and dads are now also feeling the anxieties on this very real and sensitive subject as I did and no doubt my own father and his father before him did when I left home for errands and such or just being with friends. It's a part of the minority experience that has a long history, and still exists whether it's acknowledged, or understood and that's the dam shame of it after all this time!

I don't expect you to understand or care, that may be asking a lot.

jlisenbe · Feb 18, 2020, 11:00 AM

my grown grand kids who are more than a bit angry at dealing with it.

So your grandkids are being subjected to searches for no observable reason?

jlisenbe · Feb 18, 2020, 11:13 AM

I'll tell you where I'm coming from on this. I've known one black person in my life that we could sit down and talk with everything on the table and have a genuinely honest conversation. We were talking about this subject and she told me that she had conducted a conversation with her kids about how to behave if they were pulled over/stopped by a policeman. I asked her (She was probably somewhere in her forties at the time) if she had ever had a negative encounter with the police. She said she had not. I just started laughing because, as it turned out, I was the one who had experienced unpleasant, unwarranted encounters with cops and on several different occasions, including one time when I was suddenly faced with four cops and a police dog at my school! So it is quite possible that I understand more than you think.

But I will still say that the biggest problem facing black people in America, by FAR, is the behavior of far too many black people in America. In other words, black people could promote their own welfare a great deal by making some changes in behavior that would cause them to reap enormous rewards.

Research has shown that three behaviors are important in avoiding poverty. They are to "finish high school, marry before having a child, and marry after the age of 20!Here’s the real kicker: only 8 percent of families who do all three are poor; however, 79 percent of those who fail to do all three are poor." It is beyond amazing to me that all we hear is this largely false narrative about police brutality, and yet NO ONE, including Tal, talks about this. It is one of the great disgraces of our age. It is so because it's a lot easier to whine and complain about the behavior of someone else and thus be able to avoid ME having to change MY behavior. It's sickening that we do not shout this from the rooftops.

https://lifesmartblog.com/2015/01/28...event-poverty/

talaniman · Feb 18, 2020, 11:40 AM

Originally Posted by jlisenbe

So your grandkids are being subjected to searches for no observable reason?

That's what I said, followed in stores, especially higher end shops and we aren't talking poor looking kids either, but when they ask why does it happen, it's because it does, so watch how you present yourself and the way you talk, and act especially around cops no matter what! I was always taught because people look like you they aren't automatically your friend, nor those that look different automatically your enemy. Be aware of where you are and who is around you. Don't let your mouth get you kilt!

Most minorities realize how quick you can die for nothing as I'm sure everybody does and they watch whatever news like everybody else. We all do. I know it's a risk for everybody, and bad things happen to good people all the time. Heard all that but with a minority stuff happens because you are a minority.

To this day even my old butt never stops where there could be a problem, no minority does. I imagine you gave your kids the talk about those people places and things that could be a problem for them too.

Vacuum7 · Feb 18, 2020, 02:38 PM

Talaniman: I will admit that hysteria exists all over the map when it comes to subjects of race and Police, from both sides of the perspective, and especially with regard to Blacks. I know that Police tend to "act" differently when handling Blacks as opposed to Caucasians and Black tend to act differently than Whites when confronted by Police: So where is/what is the genesis of these differing reactions? I can only guess that much of it is rooted in a TRUST factor and there are a lot of components interacting dynamically in that equation. There is a history to be told by both sides and much of that history has fallen by the wayside because it isn't relevant anymore but some of it is quite relevant. When I get pulled for speeding (5 years since my last ticket!), I must admit that my heart skips a beat and if my heart skips a beat I can only imagine its worse for a Black man: When you are nervous, you act differently! And that is a fact. Not being nervous is a hard thing to teach and I don't even know if it is possible. This nervousness in a person is something damn near palatable to a cop...they pick up on it and immediately become suspicious of whomever they are interacting with at the time....I'm not making excuses for bad behavior, just telling you what happens.

I can relate this story: My wife had a neighbor girlfriend (Black woman) that lived one house over from us. Her husband (Black man) was a very successful Trucking Co. owner...these two seemed very happy.....but one day, that all changed, dramatically: My wife came to me and said "You have to go over to Tina's and do something, Robert is throwing all her clothes out of the house!" Well, what do you think I did? I can't deny my wife's wishes so I went over there to try and talk some sense to Robert, who was raging at Tina...he didn't lay a hand on his wife, just raising hell....Started talking to Robert trying to calm him down without being too intrusive (how do you do that?)….meanwhile, some other neighbor had called the Police: Two Police cars arrived, two cops: Immediately on enter the home, the cops hands were "on" their sidearms....they wanted to know who I was and why I was there....I told them I was a friend and I had walked over to talk to Robert...One of the cops, very young, was particularly nervous and confrontational and damn near pulled his sidearm...at that moment I realized that something bad might happen right then and there...so I quietly, but effectively positioned myself between the cop and Robert, not an obvious way but in a way to diffuse the situation...and, it worked! I swear, I think that If I had not been there that day, Robert may have been shot by a nervous young cop...and it would have been for nothing: By the end of the day, Robert was picking all of his wife's clothes up off the lawn and putting them back into the closet...they are still man and wife with 30 years marriage now.

MOST Police are well trained, I think....and most are probably good....but there are those that are better than the average and those that are worse. Are there RACIST cops? Probably some, sure...but I don't know how you screen for that. I do think that a lack of understanding, a lack of communication, between cops and people of color is something that definitely can and should be worked on.

Race "FIREBRANDS", on both sides of the subject, are a problem for us all, and it doesn't matter what angle they are coming from on the subject: The "pot stirrers" are a real troublemakers: We will continue to progress but the firebrands slow that progress rate down by a good bit.

Wondergirl · Feb 18, 2020, 03:28 PM

Plus, the police are not know for their wisdom and intelligence.

The standard range of scores applied for police officers is a score between 20 and 27. According to ABC News, the average score nationally for police officers is 21 to 22, the equivalent of an IQ of 104, or just a little above average. A perfect score on this test, the Wonderlic, is a 50.

http://thefreethoughtproject.com/court-police-departments-refuse-hire-smart/

jlisenbe · Feb 18, 2020, 03:40 PM

Plus, the police are not know for their wisdom and intelligence.

The standard range of scores applied for police officers is a score between 20 and 27. According to ABC News, the average score nationally for police officers is 21 to 22, the equivalent of an IQ of 104, or just a little above average. A perfect score on this test, the Wonderlic, is a 50.

My goodness. What an insulting statement, that they are not known for wisdom and intelligence. The ones I know are both wise and intelligent. That comment is surprising coming from you.

So their IQ is above average. The police I know, and I know several, are terrific, but if you don't trust them, then the next time your house is being broken into, be sure to NOT call them.

Vacuum7 · Feb 18, 2020, 03:55 PM

I have never seen a person yet who disparaged Police NOT call them when they had a crisis: In fact, the opposite often seems true, they will call them faster!

Wondergirl · Feb 18, 2020, 03:55 PM

No one would ever break into my house. During my own experiences with the police, their wisdom and intelligence have not been real obvious. (Btw, the average IQ is 100.)

Athos · Feb 18, 2020, 04:08 PM

Originally Posted by jlisenbe

So their IQ is above average

No it's not above average. Any IQ around 100 plus or minus 5 points is average. WG is correct.

The average IQ policeman is given a gun and a badge - the ultimate authority outside of a court. There is also the reality that outside of the big cities and the state police the police training is terrible. They're not well-trained in the law, much less how to handle people in critical situations.

As someone said, the problem is screening. Very badly motivated individuals tend to apply for police work. They want the gun and the badge. Good psychological screening gets some of them, but not all. Just watch the news for shoddy and tragic police work. African-Americans are doubly in danger since the average white cop is not familiar with Black life, and is conditioned by media to see Blacks as criminals.

There's nothing new about all this. It's been well-known for years and the small town police departments have little funds to do a good screening job of applicants. Most cops do a credible job but too many are loose cannons.

jlisenbe · Feb 18, 2020, 04:55 PM

No it's not above average. Any IQ around 100 plus or minus 5 points is average. WG is correct.

Uhm...it was not my opinion that it was above average. It was her own article that said it was.

Wondergirl · Feb 18, 2020, 05:17 PM

Originally Posted by jlisenbe

Uhm...it was not my opinion that it was above average. It was her own article that said it was.

"...just a little above average."

If a perfect score is 50 and the standard score for police applicants is 20-27, umm....

jlisenbe · Feb 18, 2020, 05:27 PM

Yes. A little above average. In other words, above average. Not by much, but above average according to your article. It's really not complicated.

Wondergirl · Feb 18, 2020, 05:37 PM

Originally Posted by jlisenbe

Yes. A little above average. In other words, above average. Not by much, but above average according to your article. It's really not complicated.

No, saying "above average" is misleading. As Athos said, plus or minus five points is still average. Didn't you take a course in tests and testing?

jlisenbe · Feb 18, 2020, 06:20 PM

Oh to get people on this board to learn how to read. I'll post it again for your benefit. "Uhm...it was not my opinion that it was above average. It was her own article that said it was." Now a "little" is not a lot, but it is still some, so it plainly means above average.

If someone says they are not above average, then that person is contradicting the article, and not me. I still find your utter disrespect of the police to be appalling. I never cease to be amazed at where your liberal orthodoxy takes you.