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    jlisenbe's Avatar
    jlisenbe Posts: 3,303, Reputation: 154
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    #101

    Feb 10, 2020, 03:49 PM
    Yep! Blame the woman....
    In this case, absolutely.

    Yep again! Or he makes promises he doesn't intend to keep.
    So now you change your tune. At first it was, "Resistance is futile", but now it is about making promises that he doesn't intend to keep, and evidently in your view, women are too stupid to be able to figure out that they are being played.

    It's a very simple equation. Keep your pants on until after the ceremony. Take some initiative and protect your future and the future of your child. Don't follow Wondergirl's line of reasoning. Be strong, use good sense, and don't become a whiner and blame everyone else if you get into poor decision making. Take firm responsibility for your own life and act like your future is important.
    talaniman's Avatar
    talaniman Posts: 54,227, Reputation: 10853
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    #102

    Feb 10, 2020, 04:09 PM
    And why does Adam have no blame for going along with Eve's disobedience? Makes no sense unless he is a bit of a dufus.

    It's a very simple equation. Keep your pants on until after the ceremony. Take some initiative and protect your future and the future of your child. Don't follow Wondergirl's line of reasoning. Be strong, use good sense, and don't become a whiner and blame everyone else if you get into poor decision making. Take firm responsibility for your own life and act like your future is important.
    Sounds good(?), but we may have to help when mistakes are made and humans are known for mistakes.
    jlisenbe's Avatar
    jlisenbe Posts: 3,303, Reputation: 154
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    #103

    Feb 10, 2020, 04:56 PM
    And why does Adam have no blame for going along with Eve's disobedience? Makes no sense unless he is a bit of a dufus.
    Pretty much correct.

    Sounds good(?), but we may have to help when mistakes are made and humans are known for mistakes.
    So when you say "we may have to help", are you saying you are prepared to have your taxes raised to do so? Even better, perhaps you are saying that you will give of your own personal finances to help a single mom. That would be a truly admirable gesture.
    Wondergirl's Avatar
    Wondergirl Posts: 37,894, Reputation: 5430
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    #104

    Feb 10, 2020, 05:53 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by jlisenbe View Post
    So when you say "we may have to help", are you saying you are prepared to have your taxes raised to do so? Even better, perhaps you are saying that you will give of your own personal finances to help a single mom. That would be a truly admirable gesture.
    Yes. We already help with our taxes, although tRump is slowly stripping away their food, shelter, and schooling. And yes, I'm helping a single mom, a divorced dad who was burned out of his apartment bldg., and a homeless woman.
    jlisenbe's Avatar
    jlisenbe Posts: 3,303, Reputation: 154
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    #105

    Feb 10, 2020, 05:58 PM
    And yes, I'm helping a single mom, a divorced dad who was burned out of his apartment bldg., and a homeless woman
    So you are to be commended.

    As to our taxes, we are, and have been for years, coming up several hundred billion dollars short every year, so it would be more accurate to say that we are financing much of this with borrowed money. It is only a matter of time before the chickens come home to roost.
    paraclete's Avatar
    paraclete Posts: 2,705, Reputation: 172
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    #106

    Feb 10, 2020, 08:03 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by jlisenbe View Post
    So you are to be commended.

    As to our taxes, we are, and have been for years, coming up several hundred billion dollars short every year, so it would be more accurate to say that we are financing much of this with borrowed money. It is only a matter of time before the chickens come home to roost.
    OPM obviously, all welfare programs work on the OPM principle
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    Wondergirl Posts: 37,894, Reputation: 5430
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    #107

    Feb 10, 2020, 08:51 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by jlisenbe View Post
    So you are to be commended.
    I posted that tidbit in self defense because you rag on "us liberals" who supposedly expect tax dollars and the government to lend a hand to those in need. There are far more generous LIBERAL people than I who, with their own funds, are also helping others.
    talaniman's Avatar
    talaniman Posts: 54,227, Reputation: 10853
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    #108

    Feb 10, 2020, 09:16 PM
    I wish I could brag and claim admirable, but try as you may to help, sometimes it just doesn't work out.
    Wondergirl's Avatar
    Wondergirl Posts: 37,894, Reputation: 5430
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    #109

    Feb 10, 2020, 09:28 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by talaniman View Post
    I wish I could brag and claim admirable, but try as you may to help, sometimes it just doesn't work out.
    Exactly! And the help needed isn't money as much as guidance and empathy and a hug. Especially the hug.
    jlisenbe's Avatar
    jlisenbe Posts: 3,303, Reputation: 154
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    #110

    Feb 11, 2020, 05:12 AM
    I posted that tidbit in self defense because you rag on "us liberals" who supposedly expect tax dollars and the government to lend a hand to those in need. There are far more generous LIBERAL people than I who, with their own funds, are also helping others.
    I have nothing but admiration for those who use their own financial resources to help others. I have no admiration for those who want to claim moral superiority because they have so much concern for poor people that they are willing to force someone else to help them.

    Exactly! And the help needed isn't money as much as guidance and empathy and a hug. Especially the hug.
    You just dropped a couple of pegs. The guys at the drug rehab center we work with need a roof over their heads, a bed to sleep in, and food to eat, so we help out with $$, counseling, and yes, hugs. I struggle with those who are not willing to put their money where their mouth is.

    Tal, if you really want to help there are, no doubt, many organizations near you that help the poor. Go attach yourself to one of them.
    talaniman's Avatar
    talaniman Posts: 54,227, Reputation: 10853
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    #111

    Feb 11, 2020, 06:10 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by jlisenbe View Post
    I have nothing but admiration for those who use their own financial resources to help others. I have scorn for those who want to claim moral superiority because they have so much concern for poor people that they are willing to force someone else to help them.
    You have been hollering for a long time about being FORCED by someone else, but we all know you're NOT in any way forced. That's just your ideology making excuses for what your state policy on welfare is, so assigning that moral superiority label to your repubs who run the state is a perfect distraction so you can have someone to preach own morality while say how wrong THEY are for taking your money. I think it hilarious the guy who knocks down everybody else's FACTS and EVIDENCE presents none of his own to name the ones forcing you, and why they are wrong. In fact I can almost say the same thing about most things you have posted on many subjects. The good news is you can always start explaining YOUR facts and evidence on things YOU claim.

    Start with exactly who these morally superior people are that FORCE you to help others.

    You just dropped a couple of pegs. The guys at the drug rehab center we work with need a roof over their heads, a bed to sleep in, and food to eat, so we help out with $$, counseling, and yes, hugs.
    I think that's great to be so involved at that level and I for one know the difficulty of even trying to help people overcome a devastating disease that not only effects them, but their whole family, who are often forgotten, and in need of as much help as the sufferer. Using that as a cudgel for the kindest soul I know though ain't my idea of fair or even warranted and that's pretty offensive of you. Now before we compare what you did to what I do to the dufus constantly let me remind you that it's not badmouthing if it's true, and that's in no way true of my friend.

    Go ahead blast away, but explain yourself please as it's hard to believe anyone could force you to do anything my stubborn friend.
    jlisenbe's Avatar
    jlisenbe Posts: 3,303, Reputation: 154
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    #112

    Feb 11, 2020, 06:23 AM
    Good morning, Tal. It's rainy here and I am sick with a doctor's appointment later today. But it's still good.

    You have been hollering for a long time about being FORCED by someone else, but we all know you're NOT in any way forced.
    Well of course I am. If I don't pay my taxes, they send me to jail. In what way is that not being forced?

    Using that as a cudgel for the kindest soul I know though ain't my idea of fair or even warranted and that's pretty offensive of you.
    I have said that I admire those who take their finances, or for that matter even their time or their own food, and help the less fortunate. I have NO admiration for those who don't, no matter how loudly they might brag about voting for liberals who want to force, through the payment of taxes, everyone else to do what they do not do on a personal level. That's how you and I differ. Perhaps I am wrong, but you seem to do nothing on a personal level to help the poor, and yet you claim to care for them. I don't get that. If you care for the poor, then get up and go help them. I was taught that my entire life, that we have a responsibility PERSONALLY to help the poor. Your input is greatly needed, and I would imagine you would be quite effective.
    talaniman's Avatar
    talaniman Posts: 54,227, Reputation: 10853
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    #113

    Feb 11, 2020, 07:14 AM
    You pay your taxes like all of us don't you, through payroll deductions, so how is that being forced? Plus you get some of it back through a tax return so how is that being forced? After your huge tax break the dufus gave you are you saying they still force you? Or it wasn't big enough? I just don't get it, as your charity work is tax exempt too. And I fail to see where that superior morality plays a role in the collection of taxes in the first place.

    Explain to me why you are not just wrong like I believe you are, about being forced to pay for helping someone else. Heck guy if charities and churches were enough help, we wouldn't need more help would we? I mean what about all those people that churches and charities just don't get to sufficiently? While I think you and people like you would do a better job at helping folks in those towns that lost an industry and their lively hoods during this so called great economy, I don't see all those people who supposedly pay so much in taxes going to those places where help is much needed either, so I ask again what of those people who need help, but can't get it?
    jlisenbe's Avatar
    jlisenbe Posts: 3,303, Reputation: 154
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    #114

    Feb 11, 2020, 07:38 AM
    You pay your taxes like all of us don't you, through payroll deductions, so how is that being forced? Plus you get some of it back through a tax return so how is that being forced? After your huge tax break the dufus gave you are you saying they still force you? Or it wasn't big enough?
    Try not paying your income tax and see what happens to you. Then we can have a truly meaningful discussion on how the gov forces people to pay taxes. I have a friend who, twenty or so years ago, decided not to pay his taxes. He barely avoided jail. They began to take so much money from him that he and his family ended up in a ramshackle mobile home just barely getting by. They are still giving him heck over that. Go tell him how we are not forced to pay taxes. Your argument is ridiculous.

    As to the feds refunding part of what they take by force from us, it is basically them taking your money as an interest free loan and then giving it back to you. And people have become so dense that they really think the feds are doing them a favor by giving back part of what was taken by force of law. Wow. How generous our federal masters are!

    so I ask again what of those people who need help, but can't get it?
    I think if your question is genuinely sincere, then your butt would be out there helping. Why aren't you if you are so concerned? That's why all your pleas fall on deaf ears. You care so much for the poor that you are willing to force others to help them. Sorry my friend, but that is not compelling.
    talaniman's Avatar
    talaniman Posts: 54,227, Reputation: 10853
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    #115

    Feb 11, 2020, 08:51 AM
    At least you're honest in your looney right wing fundamentalist extreme way so I think you have adequately answered my question. THANKS.
    jlisenbe's Avatar
    jlisenbe Posts: 3,303, Reputation: 154
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    #116

    Feb 11, 2020, 08:57 AM
    your looney right wing fundamentalist extreme way
    That made me laugh. To you, for a person to not help the poor is normal, but for a person to believe that we each have a personal calling to help the poor is looney, right wing, and extreme fundamentalism. I guess we were just raised differently. You are free to believe as you wish, but I'm going to call out your artificial compassion every time you bring it up. I never tire of it.

    I don't intend for that to sound mean. I do intend for it to be truthful.
    talaniman's Avatar
    talaniman Posts: 54,227, Reputation: 10853
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    #117

    Feb 11, 2020, 10:09 AM
    No problems with that JL, I always figured between coffee and donut breaks we would be butting heads as two diametrically opposed people tend to do. Nothing personal just differences. I believe that governments must grow and change with its people and make their needs as much a priority as humanly possible so not just the rich enjoy life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. The country is big enough for both of us as longs as it works for both of us. I have no problem letting people know what works and what doesn't work for me. Been known to make it work, so no problem there I got no beetch except what the dufus is doing. Doesn't work for me. I can vote for whatever dem goes against him without holding my nose, or FORCE you to pay your fair share of the rent, so we all can have a chance to thrive in this great country.

    People over profits is a very simple concept. All things being negotiable!
    Wondergirl's Avatar
    Wondergirl Posts: 37,894, Reputation: 5430
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    #118

    Feb 11, 2020, 10:10 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by jlisenbe View Post
    That made me laugh. To you, for a person to not help the poor is normal, but for a person to believe that we each have a personal calling to help the poor is looney, right wing, and extreme fundamentalism. I guess we were just raised differently. You are free to believe as you wish, but I'm going to call out your artificial compassion every time you bring it up. I never tire of it.
    Didn't Jesus say something about our personal calling is to help the poor?

    I should have worded my earlier reply a bit better, so I am reposting it here:

    "Exactly! And the help needed IS NOT ONLY money BUT ALSO guidance and empathy and a hug. Especially the hug."
    jlisenbe's Avatar
    jlisenbe Posts: 3,303, Reputation: 154
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    #119

    Feb 11, 2020, 12:40 PM
    Didn't Jesus say something about our personal calling is to help the poor?
    Yes, He did. We are starting to agree here!


    "Exactly! And the help needed IS NOT ONLY money BUT ALSO guidance and empathy and a hug. Especially the hug."
    Much better. My congratulations to you.
    talaniman's Avatar
    talaniman Posts: 54,227, Reputation: 10853
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    #120

    Feb 12, 2020, 05:38 AM
    What puzzles me JL, is your constant diatribe of your personal commitment to help the least, yet you blast everyone else who doesn't, and the government that does. Seems to me you would be for any one helping the least, even the government, since they seem to do what volunteers and ordinary people cannot. Supplemented and collective efforts for the same goal should be a good thing that crosses political and religious lines, I would think.

    I mean you have no problem with the dufus deficit funded tax cuts to the rich, no problem with the dufus charging the government for his golf vacations at his own property, which he does quite often, but balk at giving poor kids milk or a free lunch at school, or shelter? Don't understand that logic.

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