[talaniman]

I did the practical math and while you are correct wages are growing faster than inflation it's not by much, and prices are going up faster than both, and that's just a fact the data shows for the last few decades that predates Mr. Obama. That is true for most people except those in the upper income brackets who have seen great increases in their income despite the recession in which Obama's debts were incurred as well as adding hidden costs of wars and middle class tax cuts, and public works projects. Let's not forget either the under reported news of large companies and their underfunded pensions they did away with further exacerbating those middle class workers job losses.

Moreover, there's evidence that some companies have taken unfair advantage of PBGC coverage when terminating pension plans. A report from the government's General Accounting Office showed that the sponsors of 10 underfunded pension plans paid 40 executives a total of $350 million in compensation shortly before killing the plans, resulting in employees getting smaller benefits and leaving the PBGC -- and ultimately, taxpayers -- to shoulder much of the shortfall. The report itself didn't name the companies, but independent sources said the companies involved included

UAL's (Nasdaq: UAUA) United Airlines, US Airways(NYSE: LCC), and Polaroid.

I get why people say the economy on average is great, but the stories of those that fall below average cannot be ignored, as easy as that is to do if you are average and above. For those reasons that I outlined above and have articulated before I cannot get on the dufus as savior train given the many facets of this economy that you don't seem to know. It's not just about the dufus and his bragging, as I have seen this supply side economic roller coaster many times with the same results, but NEVER as much lying and exaggeration so easily swallowed by the least informed average and above citizens.

All I'm saying guy is judging the economy by a few parameters completely misses the over all picture and the people involved in it. You cannot ignore slow wage and economic growth while having such low unemployment but rising costs. That's fiscal malpractice.

[jlisenbe]

I did the practical math and while you are correct wages are growing faster than inflation it's not by much, and prices are going up faster than both.

I'd love to see that math. If you have concluded that prices are going up faster than inflation, then I wonder if you understand what the term "inflation" refers to. Just another symptom of TDS??

All I'm saying guy is judging the economy by a few parameters completely misses the over all picture and the people involved in it.

You're simply saying that the data plainly supports the idea that the economy is doing very well and you don't like that conclusion because you despise Trump and are unwilling to give him even a whisper of credit for anything. I get why you don't like him. I don't like him either and I sympathize with you about that, but I'm not going to allow that to get me to make all kinds of wild accusations that cannot be supported by data.

[talaniman]

They aren't wild accusations, just so many stories like this, and this one. Maybe that changes soon, hopefully, but as it stands some are still struggling in this great economy and that's many millions of real people.

[jlisenbe]

The "wild accusation" I was referring to was the false claim that prices are somehow rising faster than inflation. It's an absurd claim which is untrue by definition, and your links above do nothing to support it.

[talaniman]

https://www.gobankingrates.com/makin...ng-in-america/

[paraclete]

The "wild accusation" I was referring to was the false claim that prices are somehow rising faster than inflation. It's an absurd claim which is untrue by definition, and your links above do nothing to support it.

Cannot say how things are going in your economy but prices rising faster than inflation is a reality in my economy as is wage stagnation.

[jlisenbe]

Definition of inflation: "In economics, inflation is a sustained increase in the general price level of goods and services in an economy over a period of time." How can prices rise faster than inflation when inflation is a measure of that price rise?

Sorry Tal, but your HUGE chart proved nothing relevant to this conversation.

[talaniman]

I hope you find this article as amusing as I did. The chart goes to my assertion that it's all about real people and not just looking good on paper as an average.

[paraclete]

Definition of inflation: "In economics, inflation is a sustained increase in the general price level of goods and services in an economy over a period of time." How can prices rise faster than inflation when inflation is a measure of that price rise?

Sorry Tal, but your HUGE chart proved nothing relevant to this conversation.

Such an idiotic response showing no understanding. Inflation is measured by observing the prices of a number of commodities and you have what is described as an inflation rate. Not all commodities are in the measure and services figure in the way price rises are observed, so if you go to the supermarket and observe, as I have, that prices are 10% higher on a number of items you buy, the observation is prices are rising higher than the reported inflation rate of 2%. Some prices like fuel stay relatively steady and so have an impact on the inflation rate, but the rate charged by my physiotherapist has risen about 30% in recent years certainly far ahead of the inflation rate

[jlisenbe]

Such an idiotic response showing no understanding. Inflation is measured by observing the prices of a number of commodities and you have what is described as an inflation rate. Not all commodities are in the measure and services figure in the way price rises are observed, so if you go to the supermarket and observe, as I have, that prices are 10% higher on a number of items you buy, the observation is prices are rising higher than the reported inflation rate of 2%. Some prices like fuel stay relatively steady and so have an impact on the inflation rate, but the rate charged by my physiotherapist has risen about 30% in recent years certainly far ahead of the inflation rate

If you want to say that YOUR prices have risen faster than inflation, then that's fine. It's meaningless for the rest of us, but it's OK to do that. However, if you want to say that, from a national perspective, prices have risen faster than inflation for everyone else combined, then you reveal without question that you don't know what inflation means, and if you had been paying even the slightest amount of attention, you would have noticed that that was exactly what we were discussing.

[paraclete]

I observe that you don't know what inflation means. The point is that inflation is measured after prices rise, not before, it is not a leading indicator, but a trailing indicator so prices could have risen considerably before it is observed as a rise in the inflation rate. The reality is it is all semantics and averages and there are also local influences, such as prices being higher in some districts than others. It is my observation that prices are higher in remote districts than in cities but the inflation rate is measured in the cities or in one particular city because politicians want a standard by which things are measured to talk about, and the inflation rate is a talking point.

[jlisenbe]

I observe that you don't know what inflation means. The point is that inflation is measured after prices rise,

Really? You mean they have to wait until AFTER prices rise to measure the amount of that rise? Isn't that kind of obvious?

it is not a leading indicator,

No one, and I mean no one, said it was.

but a trailing indicator so prices could have risen considerably before it is observed as a rise in the inflation rate. The reality is it is all semantics and averages and there are also local influences, such as prices being higher in some districts than others

I really don't know what your point is. The inflation report comes out monthly and is called the "Consumer Price Index". I just don't know how it could be any more plain. Inflation is a measure of the rise in prices. To say that prices are rising faster than inflation is absurd. It's like saying that the air is getting cold faster than the atmosphere. If you want to say that prices could rise rapidly in November and it wouldn't be reflected in the CPI until sometime in December, then that's understandable, but to suggest that you can use that small detail to say that a rise in prices is not the same basic thing as a rise in inflation is just wrong-headed

[paraclete]

Really? You mean they have to wait until AFTER prices rise to measure the amount of that rise? Wow. What insight.

not before, No one, and I mean no one, said it was. I really don't know what your point was. The inflation report comes out monthly and is called the "Consumer Price Index". I just don't know how it could be any more plain,

As I said you don't understand and even with a simple explanation you still don't understand

[jlisenbe]

As I said you don't understand and even with a simple explanation you still don't understand

You might look a lot smarter if you would simply admit you blew it. To continue to insist that a rise in inflation is not basically the same thing as a rise in prices, especially when the report is called the "Consumer Price Index" is just silly. And to justify that position by "explaining" that, after all, the cost of seeing your therapist has gone up a lot is even worse.

[Wondergirl]

You might look a lot smarter if you would simply admit you blew it. To continue to insist that a rise in inflation is not basically the same thing as a rise in prices, especially when the report is called the "Consumer Price Index" is just silly. And to justify that position by "explaining" that, after all, the cost of seeing your therapist has gone up a lot is even worse.

Paraclete is correct in his explanation of inflation. Econ 101.

[paraclete]

Paraclete is correct in his explanation of inflation. Econ 101.

Thank you WG, jl just likes to argue, as it said; a little knowledge is a dangerous thing and jl has little knowledge on many subjects

[jlisenbe]

If I decided to give it up and agree with the two of you that a rise in inflation is a different matter from a rise in consumer prices, then there would be three of us on the earth who believed such a preposterous idea. As attractive a suggestion as that might sound, I think I'll just pass on it and hang in there with the truth.

[talaniman]

There is no truth in economics JL, just manipulation, management and marketing. Depends on who gets to make the rules. It's always been that way despite the algorithms and machinations. Nobody sits at the kitchen table and calculates CPI, they look at their check, look at the bills and get busy.

Like the commercial asks, what's in your wallet?

[paraclete]

Thanks for the home spun philosophy Tal, might work in Texas doubt it works in Louisiana

[talaniman]

Bet it works everywhere people live paycheck to paycheck and that's most EVERY state. Not every American is a hedge fund manager or banker Clete. Lots of firemen, doctors and Walmart associates.