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    talaniman's Avatar
    talaniman Posts: 54,213, Reputation: 10853
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    #381

    Jan 15, 2020, 07:09 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by paraclete View Post
    Impeachment envy
    He was a crook before he got elected and still does some crooked stuff so he gets impeached so please explain impeachment envy and how it applies.
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    talaniman Posts: 54,213, Reputation: 10853
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    #382

    Jan 15, 2020, 07:14 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by Vacuum7 View Post
    I don't know what the controversy is all about in the comparison of Obama to Trump in the arena of jobs, economy, and the general mood of workers: I work with Blue Collar workers every day in manufacturing and there is a night and day difference in their moods, outlooks, and expressions about their own economic positions in the country....what I am getting at is that there is a very distinct change in the perceptions and attitudes of workers now as compared to when Obama was in Office....Trump gave the work force a big morale boost compared to Obama when workers saw no sunshine/light at the end of the tunnel.
    LOL, Vac! Obama spent two terms clearing out the dirt of despair so of course there is light at the end of the tunnel. Hope the dufus keeps it going, but we both know this good business cycle can't last forever. Never has, never does. What makes you think the dufus can keep the lights on forever?
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    Vacuum7 Posts: 47, Reputation: 2
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    #383

    Jan 15, 2020, 08:06 AM
    Talaniman: I'll Grant you that the Bushes (both the H and the W) created "target rich environments" in the economies....but what I want you to know if that the Obama years were viewed dimly by those in the workforce...and we are talking 100% UNION HOURLY WORKERS, too, not white collar employees. Obama's rhetoric was always dismal and evoked feeling that there was no hope, that America's best days were long gone: Trump has projected an entirely different feeling amongst these same workers. I used to see a lot pro-Democrat stickers on lunch buckets and tool carts....I don't see those types of stickers any more: I see MAGA and Trump 2020 stickers now. You can call it a sales job or just a good job at propaganda but the Trump has changed the way these Union workers are viewing the future of the nation: Its just not politics as usual any more.
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    talaniman Posts: 54,213, Reputation: 10853
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    #384

    Jan 15, 2020, 09:33 AM
    Interesting perception as mine has been a bit different but I admit I haven't worked in a union shop in decades and back then we had a bigger stronger union to be sure. Can't say I was working during the Obama presidency either, so maybe my view is a bit defferent and outdated, so maybe I'm just not qualified to say anything about peoples attitudes as you are. I know my peeps in SC and NC were inspired and hopeful during Obama's presidency, where they were more resigned to the conditions before him depending on the economy, but maybe it is just a matter of perspective, I don't know.

    I would imagine though that most anyone with a good job is optimistic more so than those without, and presidents do get the credit whether that's right or wrong. I know the MAGA crowd is totally on top of the world right now where they were not before. Obviously though a good economy papers over a lot of other stuff that can be called into question.
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    Vacuum7 Posts: 47, Reputation: 2
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    #385

    Jan 15, 2020, 12:01 PM
    Talaniman: Economies are very much inclined to be cyclical....Riding the crest of the wave for as long as it takes us is probably the best that we can do. One INDEX of the populations confidence, and I refer to workers in my manufacturing sector, is the rate of SAVING they are contributing as monthly percentile of their paycheck: Right now these contributions to individual savings plans are at all time highs.
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    paraclete Posts: 2,705, Reputation: 172
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    #386

    Jan 15, 2020, 03:36 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by talaniman View Post
    He was a crook before he got elected and still does some crooked stuff so he gets impeached so please explain impeachment envy and how it applies.
    envy that can only be assuaged by impeachment, this is very evident now the demonrats have inserted a clause that would bar Trump from reelection
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    #387

    Jan 15, 2020, 04:02 PM
    when I started this thread, oh so long ago, it was talking about what is happening in France, the revolt of the masses against government led reform, or perhaps revolt about reform of social security, which, of course, is counter culture to some. However, you may care to note the struggle and protest continues, which demonstrates that no social welfare initiative can ever be repealed. However, it is interesting to note that this discussion is of no interest to those who don't have such a system and particularly not to those who don't want such a system.

    There are other things in the world than Trump, the world will not rise or fall dependent upon the impeachment of Trump. There I have said it, I will forever be branded a traitor
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    talaniman Posts: 54,213, Reputation: 10853
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    #388

    Jan 15, 2020, 04:27 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by Vacuum7 View Post
    Talaniman: Economies are very much inclined to be cyclical....Riding the crest of the wave for as long as it takes us is probably the best that we can do. One INDEX of the populations confidence, and I refer to workers in my manufacturing sector, is the rate of SAVING they are contributing as monthly percentile of their paycheck: Right now these contributions to individual savings plans are at all time highs.
    I think hours worked plays the biggest factor as I remember adding more to that 401K when the overtime was plentiful and less when hours were reduced, but not every sector has that option, nor a good pension to look forward to, so confidence or common sense for the opportunity, or a good union or just luck of the right job?
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    #389

    Jan 15, 2020, 04:37 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by paraclete View Post
    envy that can only be assuaged by impeachment, this is very evident now the demonrats have inserted a clause that would bar Trump from reelection
    I discount the envy opinion Clete because if anybody deserves closer scrutiny and accountability it's for sure the dufus who is a poster boy for bad behavior and attitude, and criminality...for as far back as I can remember. It's not envy by any means it's more like self defense and we ain't talking jaywalking, nor a one time event.

    Quote Originally Posted by paraclete View Post
    when I started this thread, oh so long ago, it was talking about what is happening in France, the revolt of the masses against government led reform, or perhaps revolt about reform of social security, which, of course, is counter culture to some. However, you may care to note the struggle and protest continues, which demonstrates that no social welfare initiative can ever be repealed. However, it is interesting to note that this discussion is of no interest to those who don't have such a system and particularly not to those who don't want such a system.

    There are other things in the world than Trump, the world will not rise or fall dependent upon the impeachment of Trump. There I have said it, I will forever be branded a traitor
    I get you have bigger fish to fry, but what do you expect from your American friends where the dufus is a hot topic.
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    #390

    Jan 15, 2020, 06:49 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by talaniman View Post
    I discount the envy opinion Clete because if anybody deserves closer scrutiny and accountability it's for sure the dufus who is a poster boy for bad behavior and attitude, and criminality...for as far back as I can remember. It's not envy by any means it's more like self defense and we ain't talking jaywalking, nor a one time event.


    Maybe, Tal you know I don't like Dump's attitude, I don't like his delivery, he typifies everything I find distasteful about your nation, but he was elected to do exactly what he has done despite a verement opposition


    I get you have bigger fish to fry, but what do you expect from your American friends where the dufus is a hot topic.
    He is only a hot topic because he is loud mouthed and grabs attention
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    talaniman Posts: 54,213, Reputation: 10853
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    #391

    Jan 15, 2020, 07:07 PM
    You could be right Clete the wingers wanted a bomb thrower to shake things up and he has done that. They love it even if he is screwing them too, and crossed every line ever drawn. He has effectively taken full control of the repub party and they dare not complain. No dufus no repubs, and they know it.
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    Vacuum7 Posts: 47, Reputation: 2
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    #392

    Jan 16, 2020, 07:05 AM
    Talaniman: I have come almost full-circle on Unions....as a young, spunky newbie right out of the university, I really thought that the Unions were bad all the way around...that they were controlled by radical leftists, and that THEY were the reason for the decline of manufacturing in the U.S. Now, some or all of those accusations may have had some root in reality SOMEWHERE in the history of Unions in the U.S.....but I have come to realize that those early thoughts of mine were not entirely legitimate and MOSTLY erroneous altogether. The Unions I have worked with over the past 30 years have proven to me that their hearts, minds, and sweat are in the right place and I have found them to be, almost, totally, very patriotic! I stand should to shoulder with them and, by and large, they have never let me down. That doesn't mean I agree or support them on every single item, particularly how they circle the wagons to "protect" their fellow "brothers" that should be reprimanded severely but that is usually a public display because, in private, they will tend to tell you that a certain worker was at fault but their guidelines called for his support, regardless: Like all institutions, it can't all be perfect.
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    talaniman Posts: 54,213, Reputation: 10853
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    #393

    Jan 16, 2020, 11:39 AM
    I'm a union guy, but have peeps who are management and union members alike. You're right thouugh, no institution is close to perfect.

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