[paraclete]

Our civilisation has lost much even the ability to reason as my new T-shirt boldly proclaims " there is no intelligent life anywhere"

[talaniman]

Loonies are people too, and have the same rights as the so called reasonable people of our society. Everybody wants a T-shirt! LOL, I have often wondered if those I thought were reasonable people were really all that reasonable to begin with. Just because they don't holler and talk crazy stuff didn't mean they didn't do some wacky stuff.

[InfoJunkie4Life]

I believe we've chewed down to the heart of the problem. There will always be imperfection in our society, world, community, church, household, fill in the blank.

Where we can discuss, we can be safe and maybe even civil. Progress can be slow, but that's better sometimes than going backwards or overlooking certain dangers. I think learning to deal with the problems of the world, even understanding the problems of the world, is a complex endeavor. Big problems have complicated solutions, and can be hard to come by. History can teach us when it's a bad time to act, but can never predict the future.

[talaniman]

I believe we've chewed down to the heart of the problem. There will always be imperfection in our society, world, community, church, household, fill in the blank.

Where we can discuss, we can be safe and maybe even civil. Progress can be slow, but that's better sometimes than going backwards or overlooking certain dangers. I think learning to deal with the problems of the world, even understanding the problems of the world, is a complex endeavor. Big problems have complicated solutions, and can be hard to come by. History can teach us when it's a bad time to act, but can never predict the future.

I have long recognized man cannot control the weather, but by in large we can see it coming and get out of the way of it or adapt to it's passing. No excuse for not having clean air, and water, and land, and the ability to clean up our messes, we have been known to make. Those are things we can control, and should endeavor to do better at. This wacky climate change debate, with it's soaring rhetoric on both sides, is but a distraction from what we can and should do about our situation.

[InfoJunkie4Life]

I can find common ground with you talaniman, you are %100 correct

We need environmental protections regardless of the debate, also we need to improve the management of those that exist.

We also need to support a culture of a clean earth to promote good practices amongst it's citizens.

[talaniman]

Unfortunately that's difficult in todays climate of the costs of conservation and clean air, because we seem to have a huge conflict of who pays for it. I am uncertain of that aspect myself as we have plans but no money it seems. Young people though seem to be more engaged than we were though so maybe we are still just moving in that direction slowly, so ever torturously slowly.

[jlisenbe]

It's like the old story of the mice deciding that their lives would be much better if someone would put a bell around the cat's neck. The difficulty was in deciding how to get the bell on the cat. When you figure out how to cut back on carbon fuels without doubling or tripling utility costs, then I'd love to hear it.

[talaniman]

The bell is on the cat, we know where it's coming and what it brings, Currently regions avail themselves of whatever alternatives they have and when those sources are not enough they of course ramp up the use of the fossil fuels. True some regions have more options than others, and differing degrees of resources from which to use so the onous it seems is to energy providers to best lean in with doable plans which as it stands now represents rising energy costs for consumers no matter what they do. I must point out the the costs are rising without a better plan, adding difficulting to the whole problem. Yes JL we agree, we both don't want the energy cost to double or triple in a short term, but they have been rising steadily for an awful long time as it is.

[paraclete]

You know I have to tell you your political problems regarding cost are insignificant as I am forced to stand idly by and see my family directly affected by the ravages of climate and I don't blame government since they are powerless to stop a force of nature. Government is not to blame for climate change and no response is going to make any difference. What might make a difference is to stop bickering about rediculous political issues and cooperate

[jlisenbe]

Yes JL we agree, we both don't want the energy cost to double or triple in a short term, but they have been rising steadily for an awful long time as it is.

Our electricity costs are very low relative to most other nations.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/...ted-countries/

We probably agree on a lot more things than we know of. I imagine our lives were somewhat similar.

stop bickering about rediculous political issues and cooperate

Cooperate about what? (serious question)

[paraclete]

Cooperate about what? (serious question)

You really don't know, do you?

Think of a subject and think of the debate that rages around it, nothing constructive gets done as point scoring becomes the norm. This forum is a case in point. What useful purpose does it serve?

You think this, I think that. A wise man said it long ago. "all is vanity"

[jlisenbe]

You really don't know, do you?

I know what I think. Not being a prophet, I have no idea what you think, so that's why I asked. If you don't want to answer, then that's fine by me.

[Wondergirl]

I know what I think. Not being a prophet, I have no idea what you think, so that's why I asked. If you don't want to answer, then that's fine by me.

Clete DID answer!

[talaniman]

You know I have to tell you your political problems regarding cost are insignificant as I am forced to stand idly by and see my family directly affected by the ravages of climate and I don't blame government since they are powerless to stop a force of nature. Government is not to blame for climate change and no response is going to make any difference. What might make a difference is to stop bickering about rediculous political issues and cooperate

Like it or not that's how we get to cooperation here Clete, and I can understand you not feelin' it like we do, since you have certainly more to think about than just political banter.

You really don't know, do you?

Think of a subject and think of the debate that rages around it, nothing constructive gets done as point scoring becomes the norm. This forum is a case in point. What useful purpose does it serve?

You think this, I think that. A wise man said it long ago. "all is vanity"

Guilty as charged. What can we do for you n your time of need? Surprised we haven't done that alreay since we have planes and boats and helicopters and troops close enough to help.

[paraclete]

Like it or not that's how we get to cooperation here Clete, and I can understand you not feelin' it like we do, since you have certainly more to think about than just political banter.

Guilty as charged. What can we do for you n your time of need? Surprised we haven't done that already since we have planes and boats and helicopters and troops close enough to help.

Tal we have overseas help people have come in from Canada but what is needed is water bombing aircraft but I understand they sit on the ground over there because some bureaucrat is worried about cost, our military has been activated however the scale is overwhelming. In some places the only way to defend is bulldozers and you are talking of thousands of kilometres of firefront. they are taking people off the beaches. I think it is a coordination nightmare, evacuation orders when they need to roads cleared for response vehicles and the temperature has not backed off

[jlisenbe]

Clete DID answer!

Really? What did he say we should cooperate on? I don't see how, "You really don't know, do you?" amounts to an answer.

All too frequently, when other countries want us to cooperate, it means they want us to spend some more of our borrowed, debt increasing money.

[paraclete]

Really? What did he say we should cooperate on? I don't see how, "You really don't know, do you?" amounts to an answer.

All too frequently, when other countries want us to cooperate, it means they want us to spend some more of our borrowed, debt increasing money.

As I said you don't know. Everything has to be a confrontation with you, but you get more done with consensus. You have divided your country into two opposing camps and taken on the characteristics of the mascots you have claimed to represent your political parties. Look inside, do the cooperation within your borders, spend your money on yourselves if you must, we don't want your money. You see you are unable to see any point of view but your own and all we get from you is argy, bargy.

[jlisenbe]

Everything has to be a confrontation with you,

I am simply asking what you want our countries to cooperate on. You responded by telling me I don't know, and I'm responding by telling you that's why I asked. I don't see how that's confrontational, but if it bothers you for some reason then we can just drop it.

[talaniman]

I think JL missed the post you went into specifics about Clete, but I cautions you that after years of fighting fires all the planes and bulldozers and volunteers have failed to stop those ravaging fires that happen every year here. When the weather changes the fires die and I am afraid that's going to be a realization for your fires too. There just as here we are ALL overwhelmed and helpless by Mother Nature whatever you want to call her and what she does with impunity. Sure it's easy to ignore when human lives aren't involved, then nobody wants to hear about preparations like EVACUATION, often massive and immediate, but no we wait until the efforts become futile to stop the disaster the weather visits on us.

We all do it Clete, and will do it again even though we KNEW it was going to happen and can't be stopped. LOL, be better if your plan for preparedness had been a place to run to rather than how many dozers and planes to fight the futile fight with, I mean this ain't your first and you would be crazy to think it won't happen again even if as you have said it's an 11 year cycle firestorm. LOL, you have surely seen we cannot help ourselves when Mother Nature kicks up, so to think we can help YOU, is pretty unreasonable don't you think?

Instead of the argy bargy blame game, you are better served RUNNING for safety, instead of putting faith in dozers, planes, and boats after the fact. Till we humans own our mistakes we are hardly going to correct them.

[jlisenbe]

I think JL missed the post you went into specifics about Clete,

Maybe you can tell me what I missed. Clete said we should cooperate. I am simply asking what he wants our cooperation on. Is he talking about their wildfires? Climate change? Defense?