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Vacuum7 · Jan 3, 2020, 06:26 AM

When you are POTUS, the likes of Bolton, Pompeo, and ESPER don't "TELL YOU" nothing! POTUS doesn't take orders from them! They take orders from POTUS! We elected Trump to take decisions (not "make" decisions) and if the Economy is any indication, he is taking the right decisions! When the DOW reaches 30,000 you can rest assured that Trump's Reelection is all but guaranteed.

talaniman · Jan 3, 2020, 06:57 AM

It is illegal to give an order that breaks the law and that's a pretty simple concept and that's what we want to know from the decision maker dufus. Pompeo, Bolton, Esper, and a few others I could name could answer those questions and the "GREAT" economy is no excuse for breaking the law. Another simple concept to understand.

Vacuum7 · Jan 3, 2020, 07:23 AM

He didn't break any law: Its the authority of the POTUS' override any decision he feels needs to reviewed further or even cancelled if that decision is not in the best interest of the United States Of America! The POTUS has the last word on all these matters: If he felt that the Ukraine funds were akin to pouring money into a sewer, it is his job to hold-up those funds until the situation could be further reviewed: SIMPLE CONCEPT!

talaniman · Jan 3, 2020, 07:44 AM

Hate to say you're wrong, but you are in that since we have laws, policy, practice, and procedures to operate legally within then going outside those boundaries as set forth is illegal. I refer you to the Impound Act of 1974, or go back and read the commentary you missed in this thread. That's why we are having an IMPEACHMENT Trial because opinions no longer count for much.

All is mute if you think POTUS is above the law, in which case you should just say so.

paraclete · Jan 3, 2020, 05:45 PM

Comes down to deciding what law you are talking about. Much of what we hear is public opinion, it may or may not be fact. Trump is impeached for some relatively minor acts, where does extrajudicial assassination of a foreign national stand, I wonder?

jlisenbe · Jan 3, 2020, 07:56 PM

That's why we are having an IMPEACHMENT Trial because opinions no longer count for much.

I don't think the articles of impeachment mention the Impound Act.

talaniman · Jan 4, 2020, 02:21 AM

Originally Posted by paraclete

Comes down to deciding what law you are talking about. Much of what we hear is public opinion, it may or may not be fact. Trump is impeached for some relatively minor acts, where does extrajudicial assassination of a foreign national stand, I wonder?

I don't know about how minor you consider abuse of power or their underlying offenses, but high crimes and misdemeanors is what the Constitutions call for, but as has been pointed out before, even if he is NOT removed he still faces a suitable punishment don't you think?

If offing a foreign national leads to an escalation of hostilities or even a full blown war or a bunch of dead people, then no telling how that plays with the public. It's not like we were at peace in the ME in the first place.

Originally Posted by jlisenbe

I don't think the articles of impeachment mention the Impound Act.

It will fall under abuse of power, along with a few other things.

jlisenbe · Jan 4, 2020, 04:25 AM

It will fall under abuse of power, along with a few other things.

That's a big part of the problem. When you have an accusation like "abuse of power", it is so vague that it could include anything. It's like being charged with "criminal activity" or "being a bad person" in a court of law. That would never work in a courtroom, and it should never be used for impeachment.

jlisenbe · Jan 4, 2020, 04:37 AM

Tal, if Biden is lying, does that get you as upset as Trump lying?

"DUBUQUE, Iowa -- Joe Biden is the only 2020 presidential candidate who was in the White House Situation Room as Navy SEALs descended on Usama bin Laden’s Pakistan compound in 2011.

But a critical detail in his story about that mission has changed in the last eight years.

During a brief exchange with Fox News on Friday, the former vice president was presented with a hypothetical situation similar to the one President Trump says he faced before ordering an airstrike to kill Iranian Gen. Qassem Soleimani.

“As commander in chief, if you were ever handed a piece of intelligence that said you could stop an imminent attack on Americans -- but you have to use an airstrike to take out a terrorist leader -- would you pull the trigger?” Fox News asked Biden.

“Well we did - the guy’s name was Usama bin Laden,” Biden replied.

“Didn’t you tell President Obama not to go after bin Laden that day?” Fox News followed up.

“No, I didn’t,” Biden said.

That’s not the story Biden told almost eight years ago during a retreat in Maryland for congressional Democrats, as he described a tense 2011 strategy session ahead of the raid.

“Mr. President, my suggestion is, don’t go -- we have to do two more things to see if he’s there,” Biden had said in January 2012 of the strategy session."

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/bid...bin-laden-raid

talaniman · Jan 4, 2020, 06:48 AM

Originally Posted by jlisenbe

That's a big part of the problem. When you have an accusation like "abuse of power", it is so vague that it could include anything. It's like being charged with "criminal activity" or "being a bad person" in a court of law. That would never work in a courtroom, and it should never be used for impeachment.

That may be true but in a court of law the dems will be charged with a presentation of evidence that makes that abuse of power case. Much of this case is not public, but we see enough to know where they are going with this, and the danger for the dufus is that what the public hasn't seen becomes PUBLIC. I have been consistent with watching the court rulings so far which the public has so far shown little concerns about, but those rulings are CRUCIAL to what the public will see, such as the unredacted portions of the grand jury proceedings of the Mueller Report, and the unredacted just released emails between DOD and OMB, damming on their own as evidence of intentional disregard for the law, and pointing to one person the dufus. Why is that important? He gave orders to subordinates to break the law, and if they did NOT, they were replaced by people that would do as ordered.

That alone makes the House hearings even more important because they all testified to pretty much the same actions, removing people to gain an ILLEGAL objective. There is no need to have the Ukrainians cut their own throats and admit to anything at this point. I know people have made a big deal of the facts they have said they didn't feel pressured but what you admit that you would be? Such an admission would sure go over just great I'm sure with your own people who elected you wouldn't it.

In any event I didn't put abuse of power in the constitution but I suspect it was vague to cover a whole lot of things unsavory on purpose. Lol if they had a specific list and POTUS committed something not on the list then it's not an abuse is it? That sort of defeats the purpose doesn't it?

Originally Posted by jlisenbe

Tal, if Biden is lying, does that get you as upset as Trump lying?

"DUBUQUE, Iowa -- Joe Biden is the only 2020 presidential candidate who was in the White House Situation Room as Navy SEALs descended on Usama bin Laden’s Pakistan compound in 2011.

But a critical detail in his story about that mission has changed in the last eight years.

During a brief exchange with Fox News on Friday, the former vice president was presented with a hypothetical situation similar to the one President Trump says he faced before ordering an airstrike to kill Iranian Gen. Qassem Soleimani.

“As commander in chief, if you were ever handed a piece of intelligence that said you could stop an imminent attack on Americans -- but you have to use an airstrike to take out a terrorist leader -- would you pull the trigger?” Fox News asked Biden.

“Well we did - the guy’s name was Usama bin Laden,” Biden replied.

“Didn’t you tell President Obama not to go after bin Laden that day?” Fox News followed up.

“No, I didn’t,” Biden said.

That’s not the story Biden told almost eight years ago during a retreat in Maryland for congressional Democrats, as he described a tense 2011 strategy session ahead of the raid.

“Mr. President, my suggestion is, don’t go -- we have to do two more things to see if he’s there,” Biden had said in January 2012 of the strategy session."

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/bid...bin-laden-raid

The Biden statement is an old story since Hillary used that same attack line on 2013. Okay he lied, you got him, so that makes it Dufus 15,000 lies, Biden 2, if I count the Ukraine confession tape.

I don't get mad about what any politician says or does, I just count it, and weigh it against the outcome or significance, but I don't mind admitting the dufus lies irk me more than any other politician I have ever seen in my life by far. Did that answer your question?

paraclete · Jan 5, 2020, 02:04 PM

So the man irks you and you maintain the rage. I think you should just get used to it and try to find some positives.

talaniman · Jan 5, 2020, 04:10 PM

No rage involved Clete, but the continuous LIES and dramado bring out some good rants don't they? No one has to accept it, but you do have to deal with it positively for your own good I would think, to thrive and survive. LOL, so far I have survived all the idiots and whatever they have done and God willing I will survive the dufus and the rest of his ilk. That doesn't mean I have to be quiet about it does it, or go along with it either?

paraclete · Jan 5, 2020, 05:48 PM

Originally Posted by talaniman

No rage involved Clete, but the continuous LIES and dramado bring out some good rants don't they? No one has to accept it, but you do have to deal with it positively for your own good I would think, to thrive and survive. LOL, so far I have survived all the idiots and whatever they have done and God willing I will survive the dufus and the rest of his ilk. That doesn't mean I have to be quiet about it does it, or go along with it either?

the world is packed with such idiots Tal, "know it alls" who think they only have to speak and it is done. I know only one person for whom that is effective and Trump ain't it, in fact, no politician is it, no high ranking military is it. You have them there, we have them here, they are everywhere and they cause trouble

talaniman · Jan 5, 2020, 06:25 PM

Okay I confess, I have nothing else to do but fight, fart and raise a ruckus. I have no friends except YOU, and WG and JL wants me to visit him for coffee and see his bat collection up close and personal. There you happy for exposing me?

Blows your mind doesn't it, nothing like you figured.

paraclete · Jan 5, 2020, 07:07 PM

Originally Posted by talaniman

Okay I confess, I have nothing else to do but fight, fart and raise a ruckus. I have no friends except YOU, and WG and JL wants me to visit him for coffee and see his bat collection up close and personal. There you happy for exposing me?

Blows your mind doesn't it, nothing like you figured.

Fully understood, would like to come over for coffee sometime. Tal, I too am old with many years behind me. As you know I have many opinions, and what I see in the world I don't like. Every solution seems to be a camel, which as you know is a horse designed by a committee, very functional in only a few places

jlisenbe · Jan 5, 2020, 08:00 PM

Okay I confess, I have nothing else to do but fight, fart and raise a ruckus. I have no friends except YOU, and WG and JL wants me to visit him for coffee and see his bat collection up close and personal. There you happy for exposing me?

Sadly, I have no bat collection, but you are welcome for coffee at any time. For that matter, we'll fix you dinner!

paraclete · Jan 5, 2020, 09:43 PM

Originally Posted by jlisenbe

Sadly, I have no bat collection, but you are welcome for coffee at any time. For that matter, we'll fix you dinner!

I have a very nice war club and Maori Patu also known as a Mere, does that qualify? let's have a dinner party

talaniman · Jan 6, 2020, 05:36 AM

No secret I am well past my physical prime with some issues there, and can I honestly say the mind is clear and sharp as yesteryears? Probably not, and that may keep me stuck in my ways a bit, and resentful as I see youth being wasted on the young. Seems like just yesterday I was telling the old duffs to get out of the way and take their old ways with them, and now I'll be darned if they aren't telling me the same thing, sometimes gently, sometimes not.

Coffee and dinner is about all I can do folks, then call it a day because besides opinions, that's all I got. Can't even chunk rocks like I use too, without taking a break, and that involves drooling and snoring in the middle of the freaking day! Darn grandkids just take off my glasses and go about their business. I guess everything sounds like a rant or a beetch session from me since I sure can't do a darn thing about it. The truth is all I got is beetchin'.

So yeah coffee sounds good.

jlisenbe · Jan 6, 2020, 05:47 AM

I see youth being wasted on the young. Seems like just yesterday I was telling the old duffs to get out of the way and take their old ways with them, and now I'll be darned if they aren't telling me the same thing, sometimes gently, sometimes not.

Kind of ironic ain't it? 66 years have gone by in a blinding hurry. I will say that in all things, the Gospel was my great benefit and my hope for the future.

Vacuum7 · Jan 6, 2020, 06:13 AM

World is a better place without the Iranian terrorist mastermind in it. How in the name of GOD anyone, anybody in the U.S. or Europe or any other civilized country in this world can turn the death of a terrorist, who was responsible for thousands upon thousands of deaths all around the globe, into a bad thing just to try and use it as a political football and impugn the POTUS is entire wrongheaded: OUR POTUS DOES NOT NEED TO ASK A DAMN SOUL IF HE CAN DEFEND THE U.S. FROM A TERRORIST! He killed the scumbag, now you want to join the ranks of the mayor of London and memorialize his dead arse? What in the name of hell is wrong with you?