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jlisenbe · Nov 16, 2019, 07:14 AM

you either get it or reject it. faith is a gift, and without it, the message is lost

True. Unless the Holy Spirit opens a person's eyes, they do not see it.

Wondergirl · Nov 16, 2019, 10:10 AM

Originally Posted by jlisenbe

True. Unless the Holy Spirit opens a person's eyes, they do not see it.

So it's the Holy Spirit's fault for not opening a person's eyes?

jlisenbe · Nov 16, 2019, 10:30 AM

‘Go to this people and say,
“[s]You will keep on hearing, [t]but will not understand;
And [u]you will keep on seeing, but will not perceive;
27 For the heart of this people has become dull,
And with their ears they scarcely hear,
And they have closed their eyes;
Otherwise they might see with their eyes,
And hear with their ears,
And understand with their heart and return,
And I would heal them.”’

Now I know you get nervous when I quote the Bible. You will call me a fundy, accuse me of cherry-picking and using proof texts, but at any rate, "with their ears they scarcely hear, and they have closed their eyes."

You could also look at the words of Christ in John 16. "But I tell you the truth, it is to your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you; but if I go, I will send Him to you. 8“And He, when He comes, will convict the world concerning sin and righteousness and judgment"

jlisenbe · Nov 16, 2019, 10:41 AM

Might want to look at this as well from Acts 26.

rescuing you from the Jewish people and from the Gentiles, to whom I am sending you, 18to open their eyes so that they may turn from darkness to light and from the dominion of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who have been sanctified by faith in Me.’

Or this from Acts 16. "14 A woman named Lydia, from the city of Thyatira, a seller of purple fabrics, a worshiper of God, was listening; [f]and the Lord opened her heart to respond to the things spoken by Paul."

Wondergirl · Nov 16, 2019, 10:56 AM

Originally Posted by jlisenbe

Might want to look at this as well from Acts 26.

rescuing you from the Jewish people and from the Gentiles, to whom I am sending you, 18to open their eyes so that they may turn from darkness to light and from the dominion of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who have been sanctified by faith in Me.’

What if the Lord hadn't opened their eyes?

Originally Posted by jlisenbe

Or this from Acts 16. "14 A woman named Lydia, from the city of Thyatira, a seller of purple fabrics, a worshiper of God, was listening; [f]and the Lord opened her heart to respond to the things spoken by Paul."

What if the Lord hadn't opened her heart?

jlisenbe · Nov 16, 2019, 11:05 AM

What if the Lord hadn't opened their eyes?

Then they can't see.

What if the Lord hadn't opened her heart?

Then she would not have been able to see

How do you think it works? Any scripture to back up your position would be nice. It would also be nice if you would actually answer this question.

Wondergirl · Nov 16, 2019, 11:08 AM

Originally Posted by jlisenbe

Then they can't see.

Then she would not have been able to see

So then it's God's fault, not the person's. God has therefore condemned that person for some reason, right?

I should answer this? I'm being devil's advocate for YOU.

jlisenbe · Nov 16, 2019, 11:10 AM

How do you think it works? Any scripture to back up your position would be nice. It would also be nice if you would actually answer this question.

Oh well. It was just too much to hope for.

Wondergirl · Nov 16, 2019, 11:31 AM

Originally Posted by jlisenbe

Oh well. It was just too much to hope for.

Answer WHAT question? You're the one who needs to explain what you said.

jlisenbe · Nov 16, 2019, 11:35 AM

Answer WHAT question?

How do you think it works?

Wondergirl · Nov 16, 2019, 12:17 PM

Originally Posted by jlisenbe

How do you think it works?

How 'bout this:

Men choose the darkness and their condemnation lies in that very fact…. They refuse to be shaken out of their comfortable sinfulness. John 3:19 -- Now this is the basis for judging: that the light has come into the world and people loved the darkness rather than the light, because their deeds were evil.

We condemn ourselves.

jlisenbe · Nov 16, 2019, 12:42 PM

Men choose the darkness and their condemnation lies in that very fact…. They refuse to be shaken out of their comfortable sinfulness. John 3:19 -- Now this is the basis for judging: that the light has come into the world and people loved the darkness rather than the light, because their deeds were evil.

We condemn ourselves.

I can go along with that. It is only the mercy of God that allows anyone to be saved.

Wondergirl · Nov 16, 2019, 01:31 PM

Originally Posted by jlisenbe

I can go along with that. It is only the mercy of God that allows anyone to be saved.

"I believe that I cannot by my own reason or strength believe in Jesus Christ, my Lord, or come to Him; but the Holy Spirit has called me by the Gospel, enlightened me with His gifts, sanctified and kept me in the true faith."

jlisenbe · Nov 16, 2019, 01:58 PM

"I believe that I cannot by my own reason or strength believe in Jesus Christ, my Lord, or come to Him; but the Holy Spirit has called me by the Gospel, enlightened me with His gifts, sanctified and kept me in the true faith."

Well said. Apostle's creed response?

Wondergirl · Nov 16, 2019, 03:25 PM

Originally Posted by jlisenbe

Well said. Apostle's creed response?

Martin Luther, my birthday buddy. His explanation in his Small Catechism to the Third Article of the Apostles' Creed.

Vacuum7 · Nov 16, 2019, 11:43 PM

W.G. & jlisenbe: Ya'll's knowledge of the Bible and passages therein is very impressive....regardless of whether or not you agree with each other.

Athos · Feb 11, 2020, 01:43 AM

Originally Posted by jlisenbe

The question was what you believed about what Jesus said in Matthew 25. You have not answered.

For final discussion on this Matthew 25 matter, see Religious Discussions in Member Discusssions.

tomder55 · Feb 12, 2020, 03:26 AM

I note that a Fed DA appointed by the emperor has absolved the Clintoon Foundation of all wrong doing . So I guess that should be included in the "nothing to see here ....move on " category .

talaniman · Feb 12, 2020, 03:37 AM

Who absolved them?

tomder55 · Feb 12, 2020, 04:34 AM

Deep Stater Jeff Sessions appointed John Huber (the emperor appointed him in 2015) ;DA from Utah to investigate the Clintoon Foundation and Uranium One ;largely to mollify conservative critics . .Huber had offered his resignation when Trump requested it . But Sessions appointed him as an interim U.S. Attorney .Then he was assigned the Clintoon Foundation investigation .

The investigation was conducted largely in secret .Likely witnesses have said they were not contacted. Trump should've dismissed Huber when Sessions was dumped ;and Barr should've assigned a special prosecutor to the case .But that didn't happen.

Victoria Toensing is a former Justice Dept prosecutor and now lawyer for one of the witnesses ,Doug Cambell , an FBI informant who says he has evidence that Evita helped a Russian company obtain U.S. uranium rights in exchange for large donations to the foundation . She says that Huber never contacted her or her client .

Huber basically centered his investigation in Little Rock where the Clintoons are effectively insulated .

Last month it was announced that he found nothing there and was wrapping up the investigation .The Washington Compost reported it . But otherwise the media ignored the news .
It is my hope that Barr gives the case to Horowitz .