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jlisenbe · Nov 6, 2019, 09:12 AM

Find it yourself. Every single person here knows you play God with your prejudices and comments. The only liar here is you.

Just like I figured. You lie, and then don't like it when you get called on the carpet over it. So rather than prove your point, you just lash out.

This is your only and frequent response to members challenging you. Oddly enough, you are the chief name-caller. The quote above is a good example.

There is no name calling in my quote. I said you should prove your point or admit you are a liar. It would have been better if I had said "you are lying", but it's still not name calling, but rather an issuing of a challenge. You failed to meet the challenge. No surprise there.

Complete and utter fundamentalist nonsense!

I was responding to your comment that confessing Christians don't have the complaint of not really knowing God. You can call it nonsense if you want to, but your allegation is plainly ridiculous. It is very common.

In the future I'm just going to ignore your silly posts. You have nothing useful to add. Your childishness has become old, and I don't like the angry way I respond to it from time to time. We plainly don't like each other, so I'll just let you go your way. I do hope you do well and give you my best wishes. If you post something useful in the future, maybe we can interact.

Athos · Nov 6, 2019, 01:34 PM

Originally Posted by jlisenbe

In the future I'm just going to ignore your silly posts.

You have a perfect right to ignore my posts, just as I have a right to continue challenging you on yours.

That is simply your way of evading the truth and being unable to confront your sick belief of condemning all humanity to eternal torture in hell if they don't believe as you do. It doesn't get much sicker than that.

That way of thinking spills over to so many other beliefs you hold and have expressed here on this site. When you are challenged about this monstrosity, you constantly play the coward and never answer directly but always point to a book where you claim it is stated and proven. I.e., the Bible.

Reconciling such evil with the loving and gentle nature of Christ is impossible for you, so you simply point again to the book. Being shown again and again that your interpretation is completely wrong, you persist in its horrors. I am repelled by how often you must have promoted this belief among the unsuspecting throughout your life - especially to children.

Many times you have asked me what my religious beliefs are. Now I will tell you. I believe in the Sermon on the Mount, the Beatitudes, the Great Commandment, and the life of Christ - none of which are remotely connected to your hideous belief.

Your evil belief is within you, as is the Kingdom of God. Pick one, you can't have both.

Wondergirl · Nov 6, 2019, 01:48 PM

Originally Posted by Athos

Being shown again and again that your interpretation is completely wrong, you persist in its horrors. I am repelled by how often you must have promoted this belief among the unsuspecting throughout your life - especially to children.

Like this? "Children, you're going to a fiery hell of torture and pain if you don't believe in Jesus."

jlisenbe · Nov 6, 2019, 01:58 PM

Like this? "Children, you're going to a fiery hell of torture and pain if you don't believe in Jesus."

WG, Athos routinely lies and distorts what I have said. I have corrected him on a number of occasions, and his consistent lying is why I just don't respond to him anymore. And I have certainly never said your quote from above or many of the ridiculous things he alleges. I will simply point you to the words of Christ in Matthew 25. He said there is a fiery, eternal hell that people are going to. No one else on this board wants to comment on that text.

And then there is this passage in Mt. 13. "40 “As the weeds are pulled up and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of the age. 41 The Son of Man will send out his angels, and they will weed out of his kingdom everything that causes sin and all who do evil. 42 They will throw them into the blazing furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. 43 Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Whoever has ears, let them hear."

If all of this is true, and you don't warn people about it, then where does that leave you?

Wondergirl · Nov 6, 2019, 02:03 PM

Originally Posted by jlisenbe

WG, Athos routinely lies and distorts what I have said. I have corrected him on a number of occasions, and his consistent lying is why I just don't respond to him anymore. And I have certainly never said your quote from above or many of the ridiculous things he alleges. I will simply point you to the words of Christ in Matthew 25. He said there is a fiery, eternal hell that people are going to. No one else on this board wants to comment on that text.

And then there is this passage in Mt. 13. "40 “As the weeds are pulled up and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of the age. 41 The Son of Man will send out his angels, and they will weed out of his kingdom everything that causes sin and all who do evil. 42 They will throw them into the blazing furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. 43 Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Whoever has ears, let them hear."

If all of this is true, and you don't warn people about it, then where does that leave you?

In the Bible, fire is pictured as the final curse. It is used in the sense of being the symbol of complete purging, so that when something passes through fire, it is then clean. It is interesting to think about the possible ramifications of that.

jlisenbe · Nov 6, 2019, 02:08 PM

In the Bible, fire is pictured as the final curse. It is used in the sense of being the symbol of complete purging, so that when something passes through fire, it is then clean. It is interesting to think about the possible ramifications of that.

So you really believe that in the two Matthew passages, the fire is pictured as being a complete purging??? And you really think that it is both a complete purging (good) AND a final curse (not good)???

Honestly, you want to instruct the Bible rather than letting the Bible instruct you. Your method of wanting everything you don't like to be strictly metaphorical renders the Bible meaningless. No one can know what it means without consulting you.

talaniman · Nov 6, 2019, 02:19 PM

If all of this is true, and you don't warn people about it, then where does that leave you?

If is not a fact and the words of ancient man, whoever translated takes FAITH to believe in. I have no such faith in the words of ancient man, nor what he says others have said. I try not to judge those that do.

Wondergirl · Nov 6, 2019, 02:24 PM

Originally Posted by jlisenbe

So you really believe that in the two Matthew passages, the fire is pictured as being a complete purging??? And you really think that it is both a complete purging (good) AND a final curse (not good)???

You know for sure what God's plan is for those who've never heard about him or who are unable to understand the Gospel message?

jlisenbe · Nov 6, 2019, 03:32 PM

You know for sure what God's plan is for those who've never heard about him or who are unable to understand the Gospel message?

I know for sure what John 3:16 says. "God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that

whosoever believeth in Him shall not perish

, but have life everlasting."

There is salvation only in Christ. For those unable mentally to understand, I trust them in God's hands. For those who have never heard, I think that's why we should all be actively involved in spreading the gospel.

If is not a fact and the words of ancient man, whoever translated takes FAITH to believe in. I have no such faith in the words of ancient man, nor what he says others have said. I try not to judge those that do.

I have no faith in the words of ancient man either. The word of God, however, is a different story. Better make sure you have it right. It's the most important question you will ever face.

paraclete · Nov 6, 2019, 03:34 PM

Originally Posted by talaniman

If is not a fact and the words of ancient man, whoever translated takes FAITH to believe in. I have no such faith in the words of ancient man, nor what he says others have said. I try not to judge those that do.

So what then is your faith based on if you do not believe what those who went before have told us? Surely it is not based on an innate belief in yourself?

Wondergirl · Nov 6, 2019, 03:42 PM

Originally Posted by jlisenbe

I have no faith in the words of ancient man either. The word of God, however, is a different story. Better make sure you have it right. It's the most important question you will ever face.

It was ancient man who wrote down God's words and we no longer have those manuscripts.

talaniman · Nov 6, 2019, 03:55 PM

Originally Posted by paraclete

So what then is your faith based on if you do not believe what those who went before have told us? Surely it is not based on an innate belief in yourself?

Building a relationship with a God that I understand.

jlisenbe · Nov 6, 2019, 04:31 PM

It was ancient man who wrote down God's words and we no longer have those manuscripts.

Let's examine that argument. First of all, it's true of ALL ancient documents. Secondly, the manuscript evidence for the NT is absolutely overwhelming. Yes, we don't have the originals, but we have literally thousands of copies of handwritten manuscripts. With such a wealth of text, it is fairly certain that what exists is 98% or 99% faithful to the originals, and possibly better even than that. No other ancient document can even approach that. Rather amazingly, even if all of those documents were lost, very nearly all of the NT could still be reproduced just depending on the quotations of it in the writings of the early church fathers.

paraclete · Nov 6, 2019, 07:40 PM

Originally Posted by talaniman

Building a relationship with a God that I understand.

I think he told you how to do that through Jesus, the Apostles, and the Prophets, and if those words hadn't been written down our task would have been more difficult. So what is not to understand?

jlisenbe · Nov 6, 2019, 08:02 PM

Building a relationship with a God that I understand.

Not sure what you mean by that.

Vacuum7 · Nov 6, 2019, 08:22 PM

It is about your personal relationship with God.....its about how you act when no one is watching....its about how you treat others when the "others" can do nothing for your and nothing against you....Its really about a "belief system" in the sense of believing in the concept of "The Mystery Of Faith".....You don't/I don't need to have concrete, irrefutable, tangible, or, otherwise, scientific evidence to confirm God's existence.....My FAITH in God transcends all things "of man" and all earth bound limitations....We are talking about conviction of your very soul...you either have it or you don't have it, your decision to "take"...and no one, not one person, needs to know about, other than YOU...what others think is not important....what is vitally important is that you believe with the very fiber of your being.....this FAITH, it is yours and yours alone, from here to eternity.

paraclete · Nov 6, 2019, 09:44 PM

Vac, Christianity is a relationship, not simply a religion, this is not understood

Vacuum7 · Nov 6, 2019, 10:48 PM

Paraclete: That is the very first thing I said: "It is about your personal relationship with God".

talaniman · Nov 7, 2019, 04:31 AM

Originally Posted by paraclete

Vac, Christianity is a relationship, not simply a religion, this is not understood

I respect your position Clete, but...

Originally Posted by Vacuum7

Paraclete: That is the very first thing I said: "It is about your personal relationship with God".

The personal relationship with a God that I understand is the priority. Why would I put the words and actions of man between that? Why would I limit it myself to just some people when their are billions of humans in the world? All are from God not just some. Just sayin'.

Vacuum7 · Nov 7, 2019, 09:08 AM

ALL LIFE is from God.

What is in your heart is what others cannot see....and should not see: The love of God is entirely personal. I have always held out questions for those that put on public displays of their love of God: Are they trying to convince others of their love for God.....or are they trying to convince themselves!

With God and being a child of God, its what others don't see, and only you know, that matters: You take that walk alone.....and at the end of our time here on earth, EACH OF US will take that walk alone.