[talaniman]

[talaniman]

This is more fun than beetching.

[jlisenbe]

Unfortunately for you, cartoons are all you have. At some point, some evidence would be nice.

evidence: noun
1. that which tends to prove or disprove something; ground for belief; proof.
2. something that makes plain or clear; an indication or sign:

Hmm. I don't see anything about cartoons in there. Well, that's OK. Keep posting your toons if it makes you feel better about being so terribly on the wrong side of this thing.

[Athos]

A picture is worth a thousand words.

Your cartoons are hilarious and, more to the point, they are true which gives them a special bite.

Don't worry about those who object to the cartoons - that's a good sign they're hitting the mark.

[talaniman]

JL wants evidence Athos then ignores or dismisses it. WB with the same accounting as the memo the dufus releases isn't enough. Though he asked for dirt on specifically his political foes son from years before. A second WB that has first hand collaboration isn't enough. Removing those that oppose the scheme and replacing them with those that do isn't enough, the Mueller Report isn't enough, the courts deciding in favor of the congress isn't enough. So instead of more typing to be dismissed as not enough evidence I have my own fun while a real investigation continues and we get to the evidence being presented.

Funny though how they take the dufus's word that the Biden's are corrupt without evidence and after an investigation showed no evidence. So it stands to reason the only evidence that's evidence is against liberals and conservatives need no investigation to believe it.

Conservatives are locked and loaded to defend a lying cheating dufus no matter what he does, or the evidence against him which continues to mount? To JL's credit though, betraying the Kurds is an easy call for EVERYBODY.

[jlisenbe]

JL wants evidence Athos then ignores or dismisses it. WB with the same accounting as the memo the dufus releases isn't enough. Though he asked for dirt on specifically his political foes son from years before. A second WB that has first hand collaboration isn't enough.

What do you need a whistle blower for when you have the transcript of the phone call? That's like someone saying they have secret information about the Gettysburg address. The Ukranian PM says there was no quid pro quo, so you have to have more than that.

Funny though how they take the dufus's word that the Biden's are corrupt without evidence and after an investigation showed no evidence. So it stands to reason the only evidence that's evidence is against liberals and conservatives need no investigation to believe it.

Hunter Biden is kicked out of the military for drug use. He then gets hired by a Ukranian energy corporation at several hundred thousand dollars a year even though he knows nothing about gas and oil. And to top it off, guess which country his dear ole dad was in charge of working with as VP? Yeah. Nothing to see there.

Conservatives are locked and loaded to defend a lying cheating dufus no matter what he does, or the evidence against him which continues to mount? To JL's credit though, betraying the Kurds is an easy call for EVERYBODY.

Defending a lying , cheating pres is something you should have great sympathy for. You three amigos have done it consistently for Obama for a long time.

[talaniman]

What do you need a whistle blower for when you have the transcript of the phone call? That's like someone saying they have secret information about the Gettysburg address. The Ukranian PM says there was no quid pro quo, so you have to have more than that.

Personally the transcript MEMOS are enough evidence for me since he asked for a favor which specifically was investigating the son of his political opponent, and referred him to Rudy which is his personal lawyer ergo a personal favor that helps his election. Simple enough, and the WB, and a second should be the more evidence that you ask for, and the testimony of the recalled ambassador. How much more do you need?

Hunter Biden is kicked out of the military for drug use. He then gets hired by a Ukranian energy corporation at several hundred thousand dollars a year even though he knows nothing about gas and oil. And to top it off, guess which country his dear ole dad was in charge of working with as VP? Yeah. Nothing to see there.

That was investigated but where is your evidence he knew nothing about business? He is a law school graduate to go along with his cocaine habit and has served on many boards.

Defending a lying , cheating pres is something you should have great sympathy for. You three amigos have done it consistently for Obama for a long time.

I have no sympathy for your defense of the dufus, like you have no sympathy for my defense of Obama, so let's just keep it real. Whatever you allege Obama of doing you failed to prove it let alone prosecute any of it in 6 years you tried too, and now it's our turn to do what you were unable to do. Doesn't get much simpler than that.

[jlisenbe]

That was investigated but where is your evidence he knew nothing about business? He is a law school graduate to go along with his cocaine habit and has served on many boards.

I didn't say he didn't know business, though a law degree doesn't mean you know anything at all about running a business. I said he didn't know gas and oil.

As for Trump, I'm not asking for sympathy, just honesty and consistency. If you are going to allow Obama a free pass for lying, then you should do the same for Trump.

[talaniman]

NOPE! No way does the dufus get a free pass unless he confesses his sins and repents...and RESIGNS! Oh wait he can't resign because he may be in legal troubles so he better get re elected.

Most businesses have board members who know little about the industries whose boards they sit on. Lawyers give legal advice don't they? He also has been in a consulting firm for years. Why bust a guys chops over it since it's pretty standard practice for rich connected white guys. Oh wait his dad is running for president and smears and dirt are just part of the politics right?

What's patently illegal is soliciting a foreign entity for help in that endeavor, and since dufus sycophants covered the dufus a$$ involving Russian interference why wouldn't he bring another nation into it? Why would he try and shift the Russian blame to Ukraine so he can pardon Manafort and clear Vlad too!

I guess you missed those implications in that memo of his calls with the Ukraine. Just ask Rudy if you don't believe me, or better his other personal attorney Bill Barr who is running all over the world to find dirt on Mueller and our own intell community. If you weren't holding your nose you would know what's happening right under your nose.

For the record I am honestly and consistently trying to bury a boot in the dufus a$$!

[jlisenbe]

NOPE! No way does the dufus get a free pass unless he confesses his sins and repents

Yeah, just like your beloved Mr. Obama did. No...wait. He didn't do that, did he? Oh well. For those who care nothing for ethics, that is not a problem.

Why bust a guys chops over it since it's pretty standard practice for rich connected white guys. Oh wait his dad is running for president and smears and dirt are just part of the politics right?

You are one of the chief smear and dirt guys on this board. Why would you complain? If you need evidence, just look at your three paragraphs below.

What's patently illegal is soliciting a foreign entity for help in that endeavor, and since dufus sycophants covered the dufus a$$ involving Russian interference why wouldn't he bring another nation into it? Why would he try and shift the Russian blame to Ukraine so he can pardon Manafort and clear Vlad too!

I guess you missed those implications in that memo of his calls with the Ukraine. Just ask Rudy if you don't believe me, or better his other personal attorney Bill Barr who is running all over the world to find dirt on Mueller and our own intell community. If you weren't holding your nose you would know what's happening right under your nose.

For the record I am honestly and consistently trying to bury a boot in the dufus a$$!

You can throw all the dirt you want. Trump is certainly no saint. My big deal with you, and it has been since the beginning, is to point out that you occupy no moral high ground at all. The only difference between Trump and Obama is the fact that Obama was a slick, professional pol who knew how to keep his mouth shut and who was dearly loved by the national media who helped him keep his secrets.

[talaniman]

I get it now! Your jealous that we had a popular ethical guy and you don't! Oh well it be that way sometimes and no matter your opinions, BIASED as they may be, you have a right to them. It's no wonder you take unproven allegations and try to make them facts to be used as evidence. That's only proof of incompetence or faulty evidence.

I hope we do better than you guys did, or I will have the same sour grapes as you have now. By the way it's not dirt or smears or even name calling if it's TRUE! So what part of lying cheating big mouth dufus isn't TRUE?

Is he even a good Christian in your humble opinion?

[Athos]

the national media who helped him keep his secrets.

What are his secrets?

[jlisenbe]

I get it now! Your jealous that we had a popular ethical guy and you don't! Oh well it be that way sometimes and no matter your opinions, BIASED as they may be, you have a right to them. It's no wonder you take unproven allegations and try to make them facts to be used as evidence. That's only proof of incompetence or faulty evidence.

Jealous? No. Unproven allegations? I have listed a litany of allegations against Obama. Tell me which ones are unproven? They are only unproven in your dreams.

I hope we do better than you guys did, or I will have the same sour grapes as you have now. By the way it's not dirt or smears or even name calling if it's TRUE! So what part of lying cheating big mouth dufus isn't TRUE?

I haven't suggested it's all untrue. I have just said that you rant and rave against Trump, but were content to cuddle up to Obama despite the fact that he was as prone to scandals and lies as Trump is.

Is he even a good Christian in your humble opinion?

I don't know for certain if he's a Christian or not, but he seems not to be if I just look at his lifestyle. I felt the same way about Obama, by the way. I don't think you can be a proponent of abortion and gay marriage and then say your life is rooted in Christ.

[talaniman]

Jealous? No. Unproven allegations? I have listed a litany of allegations against Obama. Tell me which ones are unproven? They are only unproven in your dreams.

So where is the evidence that your allegations were illegal in some way? Goes back to what I've been saying all along, you had your chance now it's ours, and we endeavor to actually gather EVIDENCE and make the dufus accountable to the law.

I haven't suggested it's all untrue. I have just said that you rant and rave against Trump, but were content to cuddle up to Obama despite the fact that he was as prone to scandals and lies as Trump is.

Talk about my dreams, yours are pretty wild too! You cannot convince me that Obama's transgressions in your mind are the same as the dufus antics, as just by sheer volume the dufus is the run away winner of lies, cheating and scandals already, in a vastly shorter period of time and just by the associates going to jail for crimes, which doesn't even account for the ones that resigned because of ethical behavior that was borderline criminal or scandalous, or just plain incompetent. So despite your attempts to elevate the dufus and minimize his transgressions comparing him to Obama is a joke, and he should be judged by his own words, actions and behavior of which you acknowledge are not the best examples of a good leader. To my knowledge I have never coddled any politician, but have defended the merits of their policies, and that is archived in this forum if you care to check. Even now in my rants and raves against the dufus I take particular care to bring facts and not just baseless allegations to bolster my reasoning.

You may dismiss them, or disagree with them as is your perfect right, but you can't change my mind hiding behind the hammer of your ideology, or religion.

I don't know for certain if he's a Christian or not, but he seems not to be if I just look at his lifestyle. I felt the same way about Obama, by the way. I don't think you can be a proponent of abortion and gay marriage and then say your life is rooted in Christ.

I respect your personal views my friend though I obviously disagree with them, and even though many are trying to change the laws surrounding abortions and gay marriage it is the law of the land. Even Christ said obey the law. The law is for ALL citizens no matter what religion you are. All are free to believe as they please, but no man or religion is ABOVE the law.

My understanding of the bible is you treat everybody with respect, and good luck exorcising those YOU deem not Christian enough from the Christian ranks. I think that's been tried and an abject failure.

[jlisenbe]

Talk about my dreams, yours are pretty wild too! You cannot convince me that Obama's transgressions in your mind are the same as the dufus antics, as just by sheer volume the dufus is the run away winner of lies, cheating and scandals already, in a vastly shorter period of time and just by the associates going to jail for crimes, which doesn't even account for the ones that resigned because of ethical behavior that was borderline criminal or scandalous, or just plain incompetent... Even now in my rants and raves against the dufus I take particular care to bring facts and not just baseless allegations to bolster my reasoning.

I could not disagree more. Benghazi happened and four people died. Lies were told afterwards about it. The VA scandal happened. There is no question about it. Lynch and BC met in secret. That is undisputed. The deal with Biden's son smells to high heavens. As to Trump, I can't say that anything is proven. There seems to have been no reciprocal agreement with Ukraine. There was no collusion with Russia. The deal with the Kurds so far seems to have been absolutely pathetic, but perhaps more information will dispel that, though I doubt it. At any rate, it was not illegal.

I respect your personal views my friend though I obviously disagree with them, and even though many are trying to change the laws surrounding abortions and gay marriage it is the law of the land. Even Christ said obey the law. The law is for ALL citizens no matter what religion you are. All are free to believe as they please, but no man or religion is ABOVE the law.

As to the relationship of law and the will of God, check out this passage in Acts 5 and see what you think. "27The apostles were brought in and made to appear before the Sanhedrin to be questioned by the high priest. 28“We gave you strict orders not to teach in this name,” he said. “Yet you have filled Jerusalem with your teaching and are determined to make us guilty of this man’s blood.” 29Peter and the other apostles replied: “We must obey God rather than human beings! 30The God of our ancestors raised Jesus from the dead—whom you killed by hanging him on a cross. 31God exalted him to his own right hand as Prince and Savior that he might bring Israel to repentance and forgive their sins. 32We are witnesses of these things, and so is the Holy Spirit, whom God has given to those who obey him.”

My understanding of the bible is you treat everybody with respect, and good luck exorcising those YOU deem not Christian enough from the Christian ranks. I think that's been tried and an abject failure.

There is an enormous difference between respect (I'd say "love" rather than "respect") and acceptance. We love everyone, but we certainly have no obligation to accept everyone's behavior. In fact we (the church) have an affirmative obligation to teach people what is, or is not, acceptable behavior in the sight of God. You might want to read this passage from 1 Cor. 5. "9I wrote to you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people— 10not at all meaning the people of this world who are immoral, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters. In that case you would have to leave this world. 11But now I am writing to you that you must not associate with anyone who claims to be a brother or sister c but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or slanderer, a drunkard or swindler. Do not even eat with such people.

12What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? 13God will judge those outside. “Expel the wicked person from among you.”

[talaniman]

I guess you don't think the dufus qualifies as an adulterer, sexually immoral, or swindler, and holding your nose absolves you of voting for him. As for the rest of it we've beaten that horse and it basically changes nothing since you blame Obama for the deaths on his watch while not a peep about the four dead Americans on the dufus watch in Africa.

Where is your evidence that the VA scandal has improved under the dufus?

Where is your evidence that the "secret" meeting between Lynch and Clinton was illegal or nefarious? You need more than just allegations as you are so fond of telling me so take your own advice if her recusal was not enough. That's the solution to the appearance of a conflict of interest, RECUSAL, which included her entire office.

Where is the evidence Hunter Biden broke any laws at all and we sure cannot trust your sense of smell, or the words of the dufus or his sycophants now can we? You hate links so findings of previous investigations into the matter, including with the Chinese would just be dismissed, so personally, you got NOTHING.

Takes more than to keep repeating unsubstantiated right wing talking points to make it a FACT. That stuff doesn't work for the dufus and won't work for you either. Come on man!! How many times must I remind you of that? That's okay, I figure you have just as much trouble obeying your Christ and listening to me isn't high on the priority list. That's cool, I understand.

[jlisenbe]

I guess you don't think the dufus qualifies as an adulterer, sexually immoral, or swindler, and holding your nose absolves you of voting for him. As for the rest of it we've beaten that horse and it basically changes nothing since you blame Obama for the deaths on his watch while not a peep about the four dead Americans on the dufus watch in Africa.

The four Americans you refer to were military personnel on active duty assignments. People were held responsible and Trump did not engage in a systematic campaign of lying to cover up what happened.

Where is your evidence that the VA scandal has improved under the dufus?

Asks the man who can't even bring himself to admit that his beloved pres had a scandal at the VA. Eyes shut...ears closed.

Where is your evidence that the "secret" meeting between Lynch and Clinton was illegal or nefarious? You need more than just allegations as you are so fond of telling me so take your own advice if her recusal was not enough. That's the solution to the appearance of a conflict of interest, RECUSAL, which included her entire office.

I did not say the meeting was illegal, but it was definitely unethical. You won't acknowledge that because your greatly loved pres would have been implicated to some extent. For the AG to secretly meet for nearly an hour with the husband of a major person being investigated by the FBI, with no record kept of the meeting, is plainly a breech of ethics. If it wasn't, then why did Lynch recuse herself???

Where is the evidence Hunter Biden broke any laws at all and we sure cannot trust your sense of smell, or the words of the dufus or his sycophants now can we? You hate links so findings of previous investigations into the matter, including with the Chinese would just be dismissed, so personally, you got NOTHING.

I haven't suggested he broke laws, but if you really believe that that Ukranian company just happened to employ the son of the VP, then you really need a reality check. Man you've been drinking the kool aid so long that you can't even recognize your prejudice in this matter.

Takes more than to keep repeating unsubstantiated right wing talking points to make it a FACT.

Just following your glorious example.

That's okay, I figure you have just as much trouble obeying your Christ and listening to me isn't high on the priority list. That's cool, I understand.

And again. If you can't win the argument, then attack your opponent personally. I just consider the source.

[Athos]

Takes more than to keep repeating unsubstantiated right wing talking points to make it a FACT. That stuff doesn't work for the dufus and won't work for you either. Come on man!! How many times must I remind you of that?

You nailed it! Every point well-taken. The right-wing constantly repeats the same canards hoping someday they'll morph into FACT. Ain't gonna happen.

I figure you have just as much trouble obeying your Christ

Like many Christians, they have a tendency to manufacture a Christ suiting their needs. They make God in their own image - to reverse the famous phrase.

[jlisenbe]

Like many Christians, they have a tendency to manufacture a Christ suiting their needs. They make God in their own image - to reverse the famous phrase.

Still waiting on you to answer my question about Jesus's reference to an eternal, fiery hell in Matthew 25.

[talaniman]

JL, after all that you should realize by now that your tank is empty of facts but I do respect your feelings, right or wrong!

You nailed it! Every point well-taken. The right-wing constantly repeats the same canards hoping someday they'll morph into FACT. Ain't gonna happen. Like many Christians, they have a tendency to manufacture a Christ suiting their needs. They make God in their own image - to reverse the famous phrase.

Thank you Athos for recognizing it takes more than bully and bluster to cover up for empty logic and falsehood that I feel I have no other choice but to attack. I'm sure many others feel the same and is probably an example of the adverse effects the dufus has on us all. Some are just more willing than others to carry his water rather than put their mouth where their faith should be.

Yes I admit to attacking because that's how I deal with lying bullies full of bluster. It's really nothing personal. I am human, I am flawed, and easily PO'd by BS!