[Wondergirl]

W.G.: How do you figure that those two sentences negate one another? When I say "America SHOULD BE dragged kicking and screaming into wars" I mean that we should debate, protest, and fight not to go to war FIRST before we actually go to war! Its better to really examine the issues and the stakes before blindly walking into something from which you cannot so easily extract yourself......it means we SHOULD AVOID WARS if possible.

They are two different things. Your explanation makes no sense.

[Vacuum7]

W.G.: No, it means the same thing: RESIST THE URGE TO GO TO WAR! War is a last resort, not the first choice but the last choice! And war should not be used as an acceptable means of achieving the goals of statecraft: What I said first was the same thing.

[Wondergirl]

W.G.: No, it means the same thing: RESIST THE URGE TO GO TO WAR! War is a last resort, not the first choice but the last choice! And war should not be used as an acceptable means of achieving the goals of statecraft: What I said first was the same thing.

Nope, you didn't. "Should be dragged into" does NOT mean "debate, protest, and fight not to go to war."

[talaniman]

War should be the last resort, after you have exhausted every other avenue to avoid it. We have avoided a few wars though, like with Russia over Crimea, and Ukraine, using sanctions and such, didn't stop the their military not one bit, but no war with Vlad. Didn't work so good with Iraq, but Bush and the boys didn't look for anything other than a military solution, so what about NOW? What specifically are you talking about? If you mean not sending troops for those skirmishes and conflicts with criminals and terrorists or not answering the call for help by some of those people fighting them I don't know but let's be fair, it's our own government that allows the president to act with no oversight or check and balances.

That's the lesson Bush taught us, the congress gave him the greenlight and he ran with it. Now we got this dufus who isn't even asking for permission or advice. He just makes a phone cal to a murderous dicator(S), and they start the tanks rolling.

[Vacuum7]

W.G.: You don't honestly not know what I meant, do you? You are nailing me on this....O.K., I went back and looked at what I wrote: You are right: What I should have said was "We should never be dragged into a war UNLESS WE ARE kicking and screaming", as in: "Don't gleefully and happily proceed into war"...that's what I meant.

[talaniman]

Using Syria as an example, I would have blown the Syrian Army to non existance for gassing it's own people, and no way would I have invaded Iraq, but would have exposed and revamped the plan of oil for food which was rife with huge abuses. For sure folks I wouldn't just fire off 48 Tomahawk missles and blow up an empty building and put some holes in an airstrip! That was silly and costly and made no difference.

[Wondergirl]

W.G.: You don't honestly not know what I meant, do you? You are nailing me on this....O.K., I went back and looked at what I wrote: You are right: What I should have said was "We should never be dragged into a war UNLESS WE ARE kicking and screaming", as in: "Don't gleefully and happily proceed into war"...that's what I meant.

Those nevers and nots are very important. Adding them totally changes what the sentences say. Grammar 101.

[Vacuum7]

W.G.: Yes, Mrs. Teacher, I will do better next time, Mrs. W.G.-:) No, seriously and sincerely, thank you for the correction: I needed to clarify that....once again, I let my fingers run past my little mind!

Talaniman: Its the "little skirmishes" that are demoralizing to the military.....and the I am in full support of the U.S. staying out of these conflicts.....There is a strong possibility that the Syrian Gas Attacks were "FALSE FLAG" initiative of the terrorists in Syria who got ahold of poisonous gas and made it look like Assad did the attacks (I know you can't stand Assad but this is something I heard).

[Wondergirl]

W.G.: Yes, Mrs. Teacher, I will do better next time, Mrs. W.G.-:) No, seriously and sincerely, thank you for the correction: I needed to clarify that....once again, I let my fingers run past my little mind!

You may now get off the naughty chair and go out to the playground with the other students. And please don't pull little Sally's pigtails!

[talaniman]

You better keep an eye on that one, he's a NUT!

[Athos]

..There is a strong possibility that the Syrian Gas Attacks were "FALSE FLAG" initiative of the terrorists in Syria who got ahold of poisonous gas and made it look like Assad did the attacks (I know you can't stand Assad but this is something I heard).

This was reported by a far right fringe source. It had no facts behind it and was soon dropped. Stop reading those crazy websites. Or, at least, temper it with normal sites.

[talaniman]

You know how it goes Athos only a right wing fruitcake could even go for right wing loony TV. Most people can tell the diffrence between crazy stuff and real stuff, no matter what a liar tells them. The normal reaction to constant lying as much as the dufus does is to ignore him, or be PO'd enough to tell hiim to shut the heck up, but noooo! Fringers on the right just gobble that stuff up and beg for more and the dufus hasn't dissapointed them yet.

Is that downright insane or what?

[Vacuum7]

Athos & Talaniman: Well, there may have been some fringe Right Wing sites espousing the idea that the Syrian gas attacks were False Flags but I got this information not from one of those sites, I got it from RT World News! I know what you guys think of RT now, but I didn't know any of that when I saw it...I thought they were straight-shooters! You didn't enlighten me about this bunch until earlier this week!

Which brings me to another question: Do you consider RUSSIA, today, to be left or Right? I consider them to be on the Right but I could be wrong. Seems that Russia is closer to a Fascist state now.....I know that they have a neo-Nazi element going strong there and the Russian Government has not done much to stem its growth....This Russian neo-Nazi group filmed themselves beheading Chechen Muslims in a forest a few years ago: vile, nasty bunch of SOBs.

[talaniman]

Left or right leaning doesn't matter I just don't TRUST the Russian government. I think they will lean in whatever direction that gives them what they want, and have used ideology to target specific groups in specific places. Weaponizing the air waves is what they do.

[Athos]

Do you consider RUSSIA, today, to be left or Right?

Russia today, like Soviet Russia, is a totalitarian society. Totalitarianism, left or right, has some minor differences but is essentially the same.

Like Tal said, Russia will be whatever it has to be for the current crop of rulers to stay in power. Its promotion of the US right wing and its documented interference in US elections help to support Trump who has been an enormous boon to Putin and the Russians.

The Russian neo-Nazi crowd likes Trump because they see him as one of their own.

[Vacuum7]

Yuck! This whole neo-Nazi element in everything today is getting to be overwhelming: Just heard today where Dresden, of all places, has declared a "Nazi Emergency"! Not making this up! Didn't we beat these bastards about 74 years ago? How can they STILL be hanging around? And, in Russia, too, where they were responsible for about 21,000,000 deaths! WORLD HAS GONE CRAZY!

[talaniman]

The pendulum has swung back to that sort of thinking across the world, Vac, and those sneaky neo Nazis are able to comeback and make noise to take advantage of that conservative reaction to liberal policy making the last few years. Like the dufus has done here through stoking fear and blaming that fear of those who are successfully labeled the others. Of course conservative politicians are capitalizing on that fear and gaining power and influence on the promise of fighting for their frustrated and afraid of change constituents.

[paraclete]

It is not surprising Tal with Trump channelling his inner Hitler with the echos of making "america" great again

[talaniman]

As much as I have blasted the dufus for his words, antics and behavior I have stayed away from that specific comparison with Hitler, though I certainly do draw parrallels to his racist tendencies. You have actually put into words what many actually have been thinking everytime we hear that MAGA proclamation from the dufus. He does reach and excite the racists in his base with such language doesn't he?

[paraclete]

Yes it is such a grab from the fiery rhetoric employed in the Reich, whether it is MAGA or threatening to rain destruction still you haven't reached the night of the long knives yet