[jlisenbe]

Then maybe we should let "them" work it out?

[Wondergirl]

Then maybe we should let "them" work it out?

No!!! I'm going up there and make sure they do this right!!!!

[talaniman]

Should we not look at the accidents and environmental damage of previous mistakes, accidents, spills, and how these companies have responded? Has Mississippi and other guld states fully recovered from the gulf spill? How long ago was Exxon Valdez? How about the power companies and factories that have fouled land and water and still haven't fully brought the land or water? No risk no reward? Or do you really mean Profits over people! Don't answer, we already know that answer.

[paraclete]

let the lone crusader go Tal

[talaniman]

That's what happens Clete when you have nothing else to do and no friends. Seriously though, I'm all for big biz, but they should clean up their own mess and a simple google search show they do not. They make money and leave the mess for taxpayers to deal with. There is no plan on their part to MANAGE the risk, but they are gung ho for the rewards. Alaskan natives can delay that outcome but the dufus is hell bent on giving Big Biz what it wants so say good bye to another pristine unspoiled eco system to be seen only in the books of old pictures.

Did learn a darn thing from the Exxon valdez disaster.

[jlisenbe]

Sure guys. Let's just do away with oil, mining, bridges (they collapse), vaccinations, chemotherapy, banks (they fail), mortgages, cars (30,000 deaths a year), airplanes, electricity, and live back in the dark ages. All of your platitudes sound so appealing until they are put to the test, and then it becomes apparent how crazy they are. Managed risk has always, and will always, be the only road to progress.

WG, dress warmly. It's cold up there!!

[talaniman]

Sure guys. Let's just do away with oil, mining, bridges (they collapse), vaccinations, chemotherapy, banks (they fail), mortgages, cars (30,000 deaths a year), airplanes, electricity, and live back in the dark ages. All of your platitudes sound so appealing until they are put to the test, and then it becomes apparent how crazy they are. Managed risk has always, and will always, be the only road to progress.

WG, dress warmly. It's cold up there!!

Who said do away with anything, oh, that's right, YOU did! See how that distraction fraction deal gets away from what I wrote? Of course you don't. None of your posts addresses the real deal I posted. I knew you wouldn't understand the idea of companies or corporations managing their risks I mean holding a company to cleaning up their own mess is unthinkable to you.

[jlisenbe]

Here is your statement. " No risk no reward?" Well, that is exactly correct. All progress requires managed risk. What did we learn from Exxon Valdez? We learned that Exxon had to pay for the cleanup. We learned that the area was, indeed, cleaned up. We learned that the oil has continued flowing and now we are energy independent. Same thing in the Gulf. The oil company paid for the cleanup and it has been cleaned up. If we want to continue to move forward, we have to start acting like grown-ups and not like little baby girls who hide in a corner crying and whimpering when anything goes wrong.

[talaniman]

Here is your statement. " No risk no reward?" Well, that is exactly correct. All progress requires managed risk. What did we learn from Exxon Valdez? We learned that Exxon had to pay for the cleanup. We learned that the area was, indeed, cleaned up. We learned that the oil has continued flowing and now we are energy independent. Same thing in the Gulf. The oil company paid for the cleanup and it has been cleaned up. If we want to continue to move forward, we have to start acting like grown-ups and not like little baby girls who hide in a corner crying and whimpering when anything goes wrong.

You cannot possibly be that NAIVE!

https://www.hakaimagazine.com/news/w...0-years-later/

AND

https://www.edf.org/ecosystems/whats-ahead-gulf

Go ahead tell me again what a great job of cleaning up the mess the corporations did. That's just TWO examples, before you spout off nonsense again.

[jlisenbe]

Hakaimagazine? Really?

As to the second loony link, even though I should know better by now to follow your links to nowhere, I looked at that one from the no doubt fair and even-handed Environment Defense Fund. Even your own article could find nothing of real consequence to report! The best they could do was this. "But more mysterious and just as worrying is what scientists have a much harder time measuring, like the impacts on deepwater corals, zooplankton and various marine life that lives in the middle depths of the sea, explains EDF chief oceans scientist Douglas N. Rader."To top it off, all of this occurred near the Mississippi River Delta, an ecosystem already under enormous pressure," Rader says. This pressure is driven by century-old development choices that favored commerce and development over sustainability. And now research has shown that the rate of marsh shoreline erosion increased with oiling."

Bottom line. The Gulf is back in business, no areas of real concern have been identified, and the oil company was out 20 billion for the cleanup. And yes, it was cleaned up, which is what I said. Are there still some ares of concern. Could be, but the oil has been cleaned up. Same thing is true of the EV incident. Are there still some areas where oil can be found? Probably. Several hundred miles of remote wilderness would mean you can still find some places with oil. That's just life. Get over it.

I'd love to know what you want. Do you want to shut down all offshore oil production? Do you want to do away with oil tankers? We can do that, but the price of gasoline is going to double along with natural gas and heating oil. What will that do for you? What will that do for poor people? What will it do for the economy? So what is it that you want? You love to bellyache because Trump is the pres and you hate him which clouds your thinking about everything. At some point you have to stop whining and make some proposals. What do you want???

[talaniman]

Glad your happy that you bought the cosmetics spin, so you can ignore the longer term effects of spoiling the Earth for profits over people. I want you to reverse your attitude and put the people first. Is that just so undoable or unreasonable?

[jlisenbe]

So again. I'd love to know what you want. Do you want to shut down all offshore oil production? Do you want to do away with oil tankers? Do you want to shut down all open pit mining? We can do that, but the price of gasoline is going to double along with natural gas and heating oil. In fact, the price of everything will rise dramatically. What will that do for you? What will that do for poor people? What will it do for the economy? So what is it that you want? You love to bellyache because Trump is the pres and you hate him which clouds your thinking about everything. At some point you have to stop the endless complaining and make some proposals. What do you want???

[Vacuum7]

Look, I have seen enough "Super Fund" sites to know that the damages inflicted by industrial usage of lands can be near permanent when the spillages of process chemicals and wastes were not "policed"....but these were normally sites where chronic missteps were perpetuated over decades, not solitary instances of excursions. However, the Super Fund sites can be so bad that the "owners" are forced to keep the sites in their ownership because the cleanup costs are TOO HIGH for them to pay for it: better just keep it fenced off and perform whatever level of remediation is necessary (as in accordance to the orders of the EPA) to get by the requirements over time.

While the EPA may have been somewhat "overweight", putting the EPA on an Anorexic diet may not be what we need: Normally, throwing the baby out with the bath water is not usually a good idea.