[jlisenbe]

Roger that.

[tomder55]

But the elephant in the room isn't Trump, it is

"population"

there are too many people thus there is pollution and there is consumption. The fact that there are too many people is why the US and Europe have an immigration problem. So instead of CO2 emissions control we need birth control

soylent green kill 2 birds with one stone

https://www.businessinsider.com/cann...-change-2019-9

Emperor Zero didn't appear too concerned when he purchased a real expensive home and property on the beach of Martha's Vineyard .

[Vacuum7]

Talaniman: Here is the only FACT that we need to talk about: It is a fact that Global Warming Hysteria has exported jobs from the West to underdeveloped countries....and that fact extends to the United States.....and I am a witness to it. When the Obama Administration looked to shut down Pulp & Paper Mills in the U.S., the route of attack was through the use of the EPA....it went like this: He used the EPA by getting them to introduce Boiler Mack, an emissions standard that directly affected the industry by imposing regulations on their stack emissions....the requirements were so strict that the technology didn't even exist that would permit the facilities to reach the requirements! By not being able to reach the emission requirements, fines were levied. For many production facilities, this stole their profits to such an extent that they either: 1) shut down operations and went belly up or 2) shut down operations and reopened or transferred production to facilities overseas. People lost their jobs because of the Global Warming religion and are still losing their jobs because of this pseudo science crap....AND THAT IS A FACT!

The G.W. mantra is a "Wealth Transfer Plan" of enormous breadth.....and that means transferring wealth out of the West: Its an attack on Western Civilization!

[talaniman]

soylent green kill 2 birds with one stone

https://www.businessinsider.com/cann...-change-2019-9

What? I can go to Mickey D's for a granny burger?

Emperor Zero didn't appear too concerned when he purchased a real expensive home and property on the beach of Martha's Vineyard .

Unlike Ma and Pa Kettle who live in a flood zone, I'm sure the Obama's can afford the house insurance.

[talaniman]

Talaniman: Here is the only FACT that we need to talk about: It is a fact that Global Warming Hysteria has exported jobs from the West to underdeveloped countries....and that fact extends to the United States.....and I am a witness to it. When the Obama Administration looked to shut down Pulp & Paper Mills in the U.S., the route of attack was through the use of the EPA....it went like this: He used the EPA by getting them to introduce Boiler Mack, an emissions standard that directly affected the industry by imposing regulations on their stack emissions....the requirements were so strict that the technology didn't even exist that would permit the facilities to reach the requirements! By not being able to reach the emission requirements, fines were levied. For many production facilities, this stole their profits to such an extent that they either: 1) shut down operations and went belly up or 2) shut down operations and reopened or transferred production to facilities overseas. People lost their jobs because of the Global Warming religion and are still losing their jobs because of this pseudo science crap....AND THAT IS A FACT!

The G.W. mantra is a "Wealth Transfer Plan" of enormous breadth.....and that means transferring wealth out of the West: Its an attack on Western Civilization!

Jobs left the country because it's cheaper to build new plants in another country with much cheaper labor costs and the ones that remain don't need humans because they have high technology. Another example would be traditional box retailers losing out to online shopping. Granted for many industries, emission standards are an added costs especially older power plants, but a look at old pictures of the LA smog and the newer pictures one can only marvel at the differences, given there are many more cars on the road since then.

Big Biz hunting for cheap labor overseas is the cause of wealth transfer for west to east, but consider that the west is the biggest consumer market for those cheap labor overseas operations. If it were not so, then why does Walmart build clothing maker shops in India? This exodus has been happening for decades Vac, be it clothes or steel, so why are you conflating the GW crisis with the rich guy capitalists choices. Two different things my friend and a lot more complex than your simple erroneous explanation.

Sounds good to you but your theory is way off. I lived by steel mills and refineries and the air is foul, how about you. What kind of industry are you in?

[Vacuum7]

Talaniman: Pulp & Paper....32 years now.....and it is criminal how the government has treated this industry.....and why this industry isn't embraced, cherished, and celebrated for being "The True Green Heavy Industry" makes no sense to me.

Talaniman, I enjoy the back and forth with all of you on here....and Athos has taught me a lot about delineating an argument...and, I know, its sounds like we're about to cut each others throats but it is the spirit of the debate and communication of and learning of new viewpoints that makes it all so exciting, to me......But, if there is one thing that you and I and the rest of those on this site will agree to, it is this:

"IF YOU HATE PAPER, TRY WIPING YOUR A$$ WITH PLASTIC!"

I couldn't help myself, had to let that go!

[talaniman]

Pretty clean industry is it not?

[Vacuum7]

Talaniman: It is now.....it wasn't always....but the industry exercised a great ambition to making it cleaner and the hard work has paid off......Today, the industry is heads and shoulders above where it was only 20 years ago....almost unrecognizable now versus then.....And I know where you are going with this: If we can do it, why cannot other industries? I believe all things are possible through dedication to a goal and the implementation of standards with sound Engineering practices to empower and fulfill those goals...without setting a goal, no progress will be made....but you must attain a level where control is possible: The old saying is true: "You cannot change what you cannot control." No one likes changes, most love the status quo...its human nature to fear the unknown....but you walk bravely into the unknow if progress is to be achieved.

Believe me when I tell you, I don't want to breath bad air or drink bad water any more than anyone else here, but I don't want wholesale unemployment, either. I also believe we can arrive at both clean air, water, and sustained employment simultaneously.....But we need time to figure these things out....it takes time, a precious commodity, indeed.

[jlisenbe]

Vac, I'm going to go way out on a limb here and guess that you are working, or have worked, in the paper industry.

[Vacuum7]

jlisenbe: You guessed it!

[talaniman]

Talaniman: It is now.....it wasn't always....but the industry exercised a great ambition to making it cleaner and the hard work has paid off......Today, the industry is heads and shoulders above where it was only 20 years ago....almost unrecognizable now versus then.....And I know where you are going with this: If we can do it, why cannot other industries? I believe all things are possible through dedication to a goal and the implementation of standards with sound Engineering practices to empower and fulfill those goals...without setting a goal, no progress will be made....but you must attain a level where control is possible: The old saying is true: "You cannot change what you cannot control." No one likes changes, most love the status quo...its human nature to fear the unknown....but you walk bravely into the unknow if progress is to be achieved.

Believe me when I tell you, I don't want to breath bad air or drink bad water any more than anyone else here, but I don't want wholesale unemployment, either. I also believe we can arrive at both clean air, water, and sustained employment simultaneously.....But we need time to figure these things out....it takes time, a precious commodity, indeed.

And a huge investment another precious commodity.

[Vacuum7]

Talaniman: Remember, "You have to spend money to make money" most of the time, and, many times, its all a gamble. Yes, the investment was huge but the payback has been good.....I must say, its been a "Win, Win".....there aren't that many times in ones life where you can get those.

[talaniman]

10-4 to that. That's why there should be no excuse for not having clean, air, water, or soil in every corner of America. We can do that and keep the lights on and the trains running on time and still enjoy Disneyland with the family. No excuse at all!

[paraclete]

bu Tal you know the excuse, it isn't profitable. It is cheaper to let Monsanto poison the environment

[talaniman]

Some want quicker profits than others Clete.

[paraclete]

Some want quicker profits than others Clete.

Doesn't make it right

[talaniman]

If the lawmaker you buy says it's okay then it's okay. Money is might, and might makes right doesn't it?

[Vacuum7]

Talaniman: No, money doesn't make it right....There are many, many people on the left and on the Right, that think money is everything.....but I know you know that is not true.....and I know that I do. We can not take it with us when we go....maybe we want enough to get there on, comfortably, but our Final Judgements will have NOTHING to do with money......I have often laughed at this, in my mind, of course, when I have sat in rooms full of people who talked incessantly about money....spare me! In all honestly, money may be the root of all evil.

[paraclete]

In all honestly, money may be the root of all evil.

The love of money is the root of all evil, money is just a tool, saves you carrying around a lot of rocks

[Athos]

The love of money is the root of all evil, money is just a tool, saves you carrying around a lot of rocks

He's already been told that, but little registers in a closed mind.