[jlisenbe]

Walter, you've made many good points and I generally agree with you, but you missed it when you seemed to say that we are not to have a relationship with God. That is established in many places in the NT. In John 17:3, for instance, Jesus prayed, "3 Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent." Or in Rev. 3:20 where Jesus promised, "If any man hear my voice and open the door, I will come in and sup with him and he with me." There is also John 14 where Jesus said, "If anyone loves me, he will keep my word, and my Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him." Those are words of relationship.

For Christians, the Law is a guide for their lives, not the way to salvation. We aren't saved because we keep the Law.

That's a true statement, but you left it short. It is true that we are not saved by keeping the law, which is to say "by works", but we are saved to bear fruit, and one of those is to keep God's holy laws of moral conduct.

[waltero]

but you missed it when you seemed to say that we are not to have a relationship with God.

A relationship with Jesus, we are called to Love GOD the Father. I didn't go into it as much as would have liked. I will try to explain, later.

We must see GOD the Father for who he is, in relation to his Son (<--any insight?).

[jlisenbe]

It can become confusing. Jesus said that we pray to the Father, but then said in Rev. 3:20 we would dine with Him. I'm still trying to get more clarity on that.

[Wondergirl]

A relationship with Jesus, we are called to Love GOD the Father. I didn't go into it as much as would have liked. I will try to explain, later.

We must see GOD the Father for who he is, in relation to his Son (<--any insight?).

Are you a Trinitarian? Three Persons in one God: God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit.

[waltero]

Are you a Trinitarian? One God in three Persons: God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit.

WG, I get that. But what you might not understand, Jesus is the Son of GOD, 100% Man!
You need to understand something. I know this is not easily explained. If you run across somebody who says Jesus is the Son of GOD, what is your automatic response?- Jesus is GOD- Yes? Why do you feel you need to interject that? If a Johovah witness tells you Jesus is not GOD but he is the Son of God, are they lying?

A relationship with Jesus, we are called to Love GOD the Father. I didn't go into it as much as would have liked. I will try to explain, later.

We must see GOD the Father for who he is, in relation to his Son (<--any insight?).

Re-post, so I don't forget. (note to self- King David loved God's Law, meditated on it day and night...David was a man after God’s own heart).

[jlisenbe]

Three Persons in one God: God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit.

Yes. Three distinct persons, so you can speak to one and yet not to the other two. The classic illustration of this is the baptism of Jesus. Jesus is baptized, not the Holy Spirit or the Father. The Holy Spirit (not the Father or Jesus) descends upon Jesus as a dove. The Father (not Jesus or the Holy Spirit) speaks from heaven, "This is my beloved Son in whom I am well pleased." The distinction between Father and Son is especially clear in the quote at the end.

It is very plain in a number of passages.

[Wondergirl]

WG, I get that. But what you might not understand, Jesus is the Son of GOD, 100% Man!

No, not only 100% man. For human understanding, He was 100% man AND 100% God when he was here on earth. (He was fully and completely both God and Man. Yeah, I know -- difficult concept.) "Jesus claimed the divine name (John 8:58) and did things that only God can do (Mark 2:1–12; Luke 7:48–50). But Jesus also displayed the weaknesses and vulnerabilities common to humanity (Luke 19:41; John 19:28)."
https://www.gotquestions.org/Jesus-God-man.html

Once Jesus the Christ returned to heaven, he was and is 100% God.

You need to understand something. I know this is not easily explained. If you run across somebody who says Jesus is the Son of GOD, what is your automatic response?- Jesus is GOD- Yes? Why do you feel you need to interject that? If a Johovah witness tells you Jesus is not GOD but he is the Son of God, are they lying?

Re-post, so I don't forget.

I have nothing to do with JWs. If that's what they believe, they aren't fully informed.

[waltero]

You're taking away from The 'Man' Jesus. You should see the separation, as well as the unity. They are in complete agreement with each other. Jesus Is 100% man. The Fact that he is 100% GOD doesn't take away from the fact that he's 100% man!
This is a hard subject to comprehend. If you don't understand this, then you're missing out. How is a person even able to go forward with the above topic if you're not willing to understand. I'm not saying you're doomed for everlasting punishment. I'm simply saying that there are those who eat meat and others who are still drinking Milk...not that that is a bad thing. If you have your mind set, I will not talk about it any longer.

[jlisenbe]

No, not only 100% man. For human understanding, He was 100% man AND 100% God when he was here on earth. (He was fully and completely both God and Man. Yeah, I know -- difficult concept.) "Jesus claimed the divine name (John 8:58) and did things that only God can do (Mark 2:1–12; Luke 7:48–50).

So far so good.

But Jesus also displayed the weaknesses and vulnerabilities common to humanity

True in the sense that He could become tired, hungry, etc. But not true if you are referring to sin. BTW, I don't think you are.

Once Jesus the Christ returned to heaven, he was and is 100% God.

Do you mean God ONLY and no longer man?

[Wondergirl]

Your* taking away from The 'Man' Jesus. You should see the separation, as well as the unity. They are in complete agreement with each other. Jesus Is 100% man. The Fact that he is 100% GOD doesn't take away from the fact that he's 100% man!

*You're, not your.

I'm not taking away anything. You are! Read what jlisenbe said in post #226.

Do you mean God ONLY and no longer man?

I thought of that as I posted. You're right. Jesus is still 100% God and 100% man.

Like He, as a man, said to the thief on the cross, "Today you'll be with me in Paradise."

[waltero]

You're taking away from The 'Man' Jesus. You should see the separation, as well as the unity. They are in complete agreement with each other. Jesus Is 100% man. The Fact that he is 100% GOD doesn't take away from the fact that he's 100% man!
This is a hard subject to comprehend. If you don't understand this, then you're missing out. How is a person even able to go forward with the above topic if you're not willing to understand. I'm not saying you're doomed for everlasting punishment. I'm simply saying that there are those who eat meat and others who are still drinking Milk...not that that is a bad thing. If you have your mind set, I will not talk about it any longer.

No, not only 100% man
Jesus is still 100% man.

Which is it?
Are you trying to tell me that Jesus wasn't "Born" 100% man? Do you know Why they report the lineage of Joseph (Jesus earthly Father)?

You're, not your.

Thank you. I was correcting it at the time you posted.

[Wondergirl]

You're taking away from The 'Man' Jesus.

No, I'm not! I said He is 100% God and 100% man.

[waltero]

No, not only 100% man.
I said He is 100% God and 100% man.

So you don't see him as Man, but a GODMAN? If somebody tells you Jesus is not GOD but he is the Son of God, are they lying?

Do you know Why they report the lineage of Joseph (Jesus earthly Father)?
I'm good with what ever you think.

We must see GOD the Father for who he is, in relation to his Son...Jesus became Sin.

[Wondergirl]

So you don't see him as Man, but a GODMAN?

Noooooo!!! God AND man.

If somebody tells you Jesus is not GOD but he is the Son of God, are they lying?

He doesn't know and understand the whole story.

Do you know Why they report the lineage of Joseph (Jesus earthly Father)?
I'm good with what ever you think.

That lineage goes all the way back to Adam (in Luke) and Abraham (in Matthew). Jesus is presented as the long-awaited Messiah, who was expected to be a descendant of King David.

[waltero]

Noooooo!!! God AND man.

Can a person come to know Jesus, as King and savior of the World, 'the Man'? Knowing GOD, while not understanding the Trinity?

If somebody tells you Jesus is not GOD but he is the Son of God, are they lying?

Simple yes or no question? You feel the need to have them understand the Trinity, same as you 'might' understand it (why can't you let it go)? Yes, Jesus is the Son of GOD, the one and only Son of GOD...now let me tell you about GOD...

That lineage goes all the way back to Adam (in Luke) and Abraham (in Matthew). Jesus is presented as the long-awaited Messiah, who was expected to be a descendant of King David

.Sure, that would explain Mary's lineage, but they included Joseph's lineage also?

[Wondergirl]

Can a person come to know Jesus, as King and savior of the World, 'the Man'? Knowing GOD, while not understanding the Trinity?

Of course!

Simple yes or no question? You feel the need to have them understand the Trinity, same as you 'might' understand it (why can't you let it go)?.

All they need to understand is that God loves them and forgives them because of Jesus' sacrifice on the cross.

Sure, that would explain Mary's lineage, but they included Joseph's lineage also?

Joseph wasn't part of the deal in getting Mary pregnant. Luke says Joseph's lineage, like Mary's, includes King David.

[waltero]

Joseph wasn't part of the deal.

Then why do you think they took the trouble of laying it all out before us?

All they need to understand is that God loves them and forgives them because of Jesus' sacrifice on the cross.

True, I like that.

[Wondergirl]

Then why do you think they took the trouble of laying it all out before us.

You would have to understand how the Jews laid out a person's genealogy, and thus why Joseph's line was included in Luke's account. Luke, a doctor, connects Jesus’ humanity all the way back to the first man, Adam.

[waltero]

You would have to understand how the Jews laid out a person's genealogy, and thus why Joseph's line was included in Luke's account.

Is this your Answer? Could it be, that Joseph was Jesus Father???

[Wondergirl]

Is this your Answer?

Do you want more?

What's YOUR answer?