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paraclete · Sep 15, 2019, 06:27 AM

Do we have Trump's excuse to bomb Iran? Drone attacks on Saudi oil assets,blamed on the Hothi however, the oil assets attacked were closer to Iran than Yemen and where did Hothi get such sophisticated weapons. Many questions to be answered here, will Trump once again dance to the Saudi tune? Will Saudi Arabia unleash a proxy war on Iran. Whatever the answer we will all be paying for it

tomder55 · Sep 15, 2019, 08:22 AM

where did Hothi get such sophisticated weapons

that is easy . The IRGC supplied them .You forget their drones are pretty sophisticated . Their turbojet-powered Karrar drone can easily drop bombs as well as fire a guided missile called the Sadid. It took a special Marine jamming device to take one down in the Straits of Hormuz in July .

Now do I believe it was Houthi or IRGC hands at the controls ? I don't believe the Houthi's piloted the craft . Tehran's drones have demonstrated effectiveness in Syria ;mostly for scouting and directing fire. But given the fact that the Saudi oil was probably not sufficiently protected against an aerial attack . I can see their drones slipping through and hitting their targets .

Will Saudi Arabia unleash a proxy war on Iran

No Iran has attacked Saudi Arabia . You should get your facts straight.The Houthi's are a proxy force of Iran . The Saudi's and a Gulf coalition are fighting them because it is in no one's interest for them to control the Arabian Sea coast and the Gulf of Aden.

btw it has been revealed that the dispute between Trump and Bolton was NOT about the Taliban . Bolton opposed that Trump wanted to lift some Iranian sanctions as inducement to get them to direct talks . Bolton was right to oppose it .

The good news is that the US has surpassed the Saudi's as oil exporters . Now you Aussies import almost all of your oil used although most of it is from Asian sources . However any disruption of the world market affects world prices . So when you pay more at the pump think hard about if you think it is a good idea to stop Iraninan aggression.

talaniman · Sep 15, 2019, 09:28 AM

Been here before folks,

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1973_oil_crisis

Read the whole thing folks!

Vacuum7 · Sep 15, 2019, 11:49 AM

More $$$s for the U.S.: The U.S., it was announced this week, has SURPASSED SAUDI ARABIA AS THE #1 OIL PRODUCER IN THE WORLD! So, driving oil prices up means more $$$s for the U.S.....Guess that backfires on the old dirty bearded Moolahs!

Athos · Sep 15, 2019, 12:36 PM

Originally Posted by Vacuum7

So, driving oil prices up means more $$$s for the U.S....

More dollars for CORPORATIONS, for the American citizen LESS dollars!

paraclete · Sep 15, 2019, 02:25 PM

Originally Posted by Vacuum7

More $$$s for the U.S.: The U.S., it was announced this week, has SURPASSED SAUDI ARABIA AS THE #1 OIL PRODUCER IN THE WORLD! So, driving oil prices up means more $$$s for the U.S.....Guess that backfires on the old dirty bearded Moolahs!

so we can now indulge in some conspiracy theories, who has the most to gain from rising oil prices? from war in the ME? is it only me or do I smell the hand of the military-industrial complex in this

tomder55 · Sep 15, 2019, 04:32 PM

I smell the hand of the 12ers looking to establish regional hegemony. Who benefits from rising prices ? The 12ers do . They get a higher price for their illicit sales of Oil .

paraclete · Sep 15, 2019, 05:09 PM

Whast we have here is a classic case of push-shove

Vacuum7 · Sep 15, 2019, 08:13 PM

Paraclete: I never count the hand of the Military-Industrial Complex out of anything! And I don't think that any thinking person would ever do so, either. They have been hard at work since WWII and have been responsible for siphoning off more $$$s from the U.S. than anyone else.....and more lives, for that matter, than anyone else. Does anyone believe that the U.S. couldn't defeat North Vietnam in a twelve year conflict? No, that was protracted and prolonged for a reason: And we have some really dastardly "representatives" that we elected to give full, complicit cooperation to these shameful plays....and its entirely disgusting and sickening!

Iran is dumb as a box of rocks to do something like this....if they did it....or if this is a "FALSE FLAG" initiative directed by "others".....I tend to think I don't know, I am just pontificating.

Its all very disturbing in terms of the possible "what ifs" and who could be behind it, particularly from our side.

talaniman · Sep 16, 2019, 07:32 AM

Iran probably has armies of militias everywhere and I think one has taken the credit for those Saudi oil attacks.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/09/15/middl...ntl/index.html

Of course we don't know much YET!

tomder55 · Sep 16, 2019, 01:01 PM

We know their constant provocations ,including regular attacks and seizures of tankers in the Straits as they did again this week . Since there has been a generally weak response to their provocations ,it doesn't surprise me they escalate .

Yes proxies all over waging war on the US ,the west ,and of course Israel. All I know is that it is very unlikely a Houthi attack . To accomplish that they would first know how to control the flight of the drones and then fly them over 600 miles to their target . If the attack did not come from the Houthi and not directly from Iran then perhaps the drone attacks originated from Iranian controlled sections of Iraq as suggested in the Tal link . That is the same scenario as the May 14 attack on a Saudi oil asset .

Tehran is getting desperate .They need to sell 1 million bbl of oil a month to meet their budget . They are barely meeting 1/10 of that commitment with the sanctions . Trump's dismissal of Bolton signals to Tehran that he is willing to cave on the sanctions . Trump using his force of personality diplomacy has already signaled he is willing to meet with anyone . Macron was also working as a broker during the August G7 meetings. The question to ask is how much control over the IRGC does Rouhani have ? If Trump and Rouhani want to sit down to negotiate and the IRGC doesn't want a diplomatic solution does it surprise anyone that they will do anything to sabotage the process ?

talaniman · Sep 16, 2019, 02:39 PM

I have little doubt the Iranians through proxies have attacked the Saudis, but the position the dufus put himself in with allies doesn't make a response directly from us probable (?) or wise as a flunky for those Saudis. Pulling out of a multinational treaty doesn't inspire confidence or give us many options with those allies either, in this scenario.

Those quick hard line sanction tactics to bring an adversary to the table were very ill thought out. They can go on for years and much lower level dickering behind the scenes.

tomder55 · Sep 16, 2019, 03:15 PM

the JCPOA treaty was appeasment suck in many ways .

All the signatories deliberately choose to ignore the blatant Iranian lies ;to leave off the table Iran’s development of ballistic missiles ;and Teheran’s involvement in terrorism and international criminal activity. It was all carrot and no stick.
It actually forbade punishing Iran for violations of the deal except if Iran cancelled the deal. Trump's apparent goal is to address the obvious flaws of the deal . Me ;I don't believe the regime will ever be honest brokers because there is nothing to compel them to short of war. The other idiot signatories are only concerned with the energy the Iranians can provide.So they are desperately attempting to help Tehran circumvent the sanctions . But in doing so they show themselves to be the feckless players they are …...which further emboldens the 12ers.... and demonstrates to the world how un-credible and unreliable they are as partners .

This brinksmanship Iran is engaging in is predictable and they will continue to escalate until there is an effective response . And that won't happen until the so called partners get their heads out of their posteriors and realize their timid response almost guarantees the Tehran will breach the nuclear threshold and become another rogue nation with nukes .

talaniman · Sep 16, 2019, 04:03 PM

The treaty was a start a baby step for a bigger picture.

tomder55 · Sep 16, 2019, 04:41 PM

the bigger picture was Iran joining the nuclear club. I'll never undestand the west position . The only time the west stayed united in opposition to a nation becoming a nuclear nation was against South Africa. Every other rouge nation the west has rolled over and played dead .

Vacuum7 · Sep 16, 2019, 05:42 PM

Bashing Iran's funding source is one way to get their asses calmed down: If they attacked oil processing plants in Saudi, they may have just opened the proverbial Pandora's Box to having their own oil processing plants attacked by "unknown" assailants.

Vacuum7 · Sep 17, 2019, 05:47 PM

I thought there was a NO ADVERTISING rule on this site!

paraclete · Sep 17, 2019, 05:51 PM

Originally Posted by Vacuum7

I thought there was a NO ADVERTISING rule on this site!

There is report them

talaniman · Sep 17, 2019, 07:39 PM

Originally Posted by tomder55

the bigger picture was Iran joining the nuclear club. I'll never undestand the west position . The only time the west stayed united in opposition to a nation becoming a nuclear nation was against South Africa. Every other rouge nation the west has rolled over and played dead .

Iran never joined the nuclear club, but they may yet. Kim Or Vlad may sell them a few though, if they need them quick. OH, wait, those are the dufus FWB's aren't they? What a mess this fool has made of things.

Athos · Sep 17, 2019, 10:00 PM

Originally Posted by talaniman

What a mess this fool has made of things.

The understatement of the month! One day it's war - "locked and loaded". The next day it's not war - "I don't want to go to war with Iran". Even his boy Pence is confused saying war when Trump reverses himself.

The fool confuses those around him with his inability to know what he's doing as he brings the world a bit closer to a war he has only himself to blame for.