[talaniman]

Hmm, didn't we try that in Europe? As I read of history, we got attacked any way.

[tomder55]

A unilateral military move on our part without a broad coalition of committed allies would just be another Viet Nam on a larger scale, in the desert, instead of the jungle. Regime change from without rather than from within is just a disaster waiting to happem. I sure wouldn't count on the Iranian people revolting against the 12ers because of economic sanctions and especially not over military strikes.

we has allies by our side in Vietnam. The Aussies had 521 killed and 3,000 wounded . You owe Clete an apology..... and besides the Aussies ,South Korea (300,000 troops ;

‎5,099 killed; 10,962 wounded )

,New Zealand(

3,890 troops ,37 killed 187 wounded )

and Thailand(

351 killed; 1,358 injured)

all had troops engaged in the conflict ..

Hmm, didn't we try that in Europe? As I read of history, we got attacked any way.

yes retreat to fortress American never worked in the past . The truth is that we engage in world affairs and will continue to do so no matter how isolationist the politics becomes

[talaniman]

You think the dufus was dickering for troops for Iran with Morrison? SHHH! Don't tell Clete.

[paraclete]

You think the dufus was dickering for troops for Iran with Morrison? SHHH! Don't tell Clete.

Not interested in fighting your battles for you, you have talked up this fight for years, no way I would send any troops to defend a wahhabbist. I am against the second deployment of our troops in Afghanistan, we are wearing out our equipment on your behalf and for what?

[tomder55]

I thank Australia for their continued alliance with us .

[paraclete]

I thank Australia for their continued alliance with us.

I thank the US for their continued alliance with us. This alliance works if either nation is attacked. It does not automatically mean that it works should either nation initiate a war. We held a view communism should be contained, we held a view that after 9/11 al Qaeda should be defeated, we held a view, erroneously, that Iraq possessed weapons of mass destruction and must be stopped, we have worked with you to destroy ISIS and the Taliban. These conflicts have been costly for a small nation with limited military capability..

I'm wondering what will happen if we find it necessary to confront Indonesia over West Papua as we did over East Timor. The US left us to it.

[Vacuum7]

The truth is this: WE/THE U.S. doesn't need the den of Wahhabism's damned oil! In fact, since the U.S. is the largest exporter of oil in the world, it might be best if we just start selling to the markets that the Saudis are selling to (i.e. take their customers)….Nobody on this site better think the rotten Saudis are a U.S. ally.....Oh, guess what, the crazy Wahhabis are going go crazy again, like they aren't already, once U.S. troops set foot on their "holy" land.....that is one thing that Bin Laden said got them going before.

And, don't talk about "Fortress America" ever again: We have dolts not even wanting to defend out borders! What kind of "fortress" doesn't protect its perimeter?

[paraclete]

The truth is this: WE/THE U.S. doesn't need the den of Wahhabism's damned oil! In fact, since the U.S. is the largest exporter of oil in the world, it might be best if we just start selling to the markets that the Saudis are selling to (i.e. take their customers)….Nobody on this site better think the rotten Saudis are a U.S. ally.....Oh, guess what, the crazy Wahhabis are going go crazy again, like they aren't already, once U.S. troops set foot on their "holy" land.....that is one thing that Bin Laden said got them going before.

And, don't talk about "Fortress America" ever again: We have dolts not even wanting to defend our borders! What kind of "fortress" doesn't protect its perimeter?

yes Vac you must defend and strengthen your borders for more than one reason, and please don't start any more wars in the ME. I think you should be selling us oil it would be cheaper than Tapis, but we should exploit our own resources, that is if we could get rid of some greenies who want to protect everything but human beings. It is very sad that Muslim nations hold so much of the oil resource. The Saudi should put their own lives on the line to protect their assets this time, might stop them exporting that crazy religion, but you will be beside them while ever they buy your weapons

[Vacuum7]

Paraclete: The whole M.E. is fetid, festering sewer! Saudis are worthless: they import workers from Asia to build every thing in their stinking "kingdom"....too damn lazy to get out of their robes to do it themselves.

[paraclete]

Paraclete: The whole M.E. is fetid, festering sewer! Saudis are worthless: they import workers from Asia to build every thing in their stinking "kingdom"....too damn lazy to get out of their robes to do it themselves.

Yes but not too lazy to cut off heads, they import everything including mercenaries

[talaniman]

The ME is a bunch of poor people with corrupt leaders who use religion to control the their populations and hog all the wealth.

[paraclete]

The ME is a bunch of poor people with corrupt leaders who use religion to control their populations and hog all the wealth.

How naive you are, the whole of the ME is corrupt, top to bottom

[Vacuum7]

Paraclete: You sound like you may have gone to the M.E. before and I assume you have....I get all my information secondhand but my nephew was over there three different occasions for long tours of duty, in Iraq: His distain for the country/countries and the people inhibiting the countries is palatable....of course, his view may be biased since he is U.S. Army and was being shot at regularly.....but his accounts are firsthand.....Experience has taught me and, I have learned, to put much more stock in firsthand accounts. Even the more "civilized" countries were places he doesn't wish to return to ever again....Talaniman is correct, though, according to my nephew: He saw 0oor people treated like dog crap and women treated like farm animals: It was enough for him for one life time.

[talaniman]

Obviously I do not share Cletes blanket bias against the people of the ME, or any other region of the Earth. Most humans are peaceful until pushed to hard, or too long, or get whipped into a desperate frenzy by a leader who promises rewards against whatever enemy he identifies as the cause of their misery. Lots of places on Earth like that Vac.

What would you do to feed you're family? Wouldn't you kiss the bosses arse and do as you're told if they needed a loaf of bread? Many of us would, though we may hate ourselves for it, but if not having that option made you desperate enough then yeah, I just might cut off your head if my family was starving in the dirt or under a bridge, or in the middle of the desert, or jungle.

That's how "leaders" raise Armies isn't it? That's why there are criminal gangs in every city on Earth, big or small.

[Vacuum7]

Talaniman: I think your explanation describes what our Father's generation lived, literally: Born in '24....just in time to be 5 years old when the Great Depression hit....and just old enough to join in on WWII in '42 and see some of the toughest battles in the Pacific (Kwajalein, Saipan, Tarawa, and others).....I think what you said was his mindset: He had nothing coming up as a kid and knew it was a duty and honor to serve but, after that, he worked like there was no tomorrow because, after experiencing the Great Depression and WWII, he KNEW, firsthand, there could very well be NO TOMORROW......Desperate conditions make you hardened......There is an old saying: "Hard times make good men.....Good times make soft men...….Soft men make hard times".....and I believe there is much to be said for that.

Our Fathers knew the truth: For the most part, we work and we live without a safety net. We own virtually nothing but our integrity, our good name and that is why you must defend your integrity all costs....everything we own, all material things, can easily be taken from us. Our Fathers sought to build a buffer between their families and the threats of the outside world.....because they knew how bad it could be....and they knew this in a way that most living in the U.S., today, do not and, hopefully, never will.

[paraclete]

Of course, we don't know much YET!

What do you mean Tal, we know as much as we will ever know. Some drones flew from we know not where to a place somewhere. There was damage, carnage even.

[theipllaser]

Great

[paraclete]

Great

isn't it, news articles appear then the whole subject is dropped, inconvenient to some perhaps, doesn't play into the daily script, and then, we watch in awe as the great man goes electioneering

[talaniman]

You joining the US and Saudi Arabia to destroy Iran Clete? How long do you think that will take?

[paraclete]

You joining the US and Saudi Arabia to destroy Iran Clete? How long do you think that will take?

I don't want war Tal and your entry into Iraq should have told you something, but no, your arrogance continues. A nation fighting on their own ground is very hard to conquer. You don't suggest the use of nuclear weapons, do you?