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    Vacuum7's Avatar
    Vacuum7 Posts: 44, Reputation: 2
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    #61

    Sep 12, 2019, 06:06 PM
    jlisenbe: I am not much of a FDR fan either: Talk about a POTUS who coerced, threatened, compromised, and ran roughshod over people who opposed him, he was the quintessential one! Just look how he threatened to STACK the Supreme Court and how he changed the law so he run and be elected more than two terms. FDR bordered on being boorish and was certainly thuggish in many respects.

    But I will give FDR credit, too: Some of the employment entities he created are still in business and going strong, like the one my company works with a lot: TVA.

    We have to be careful how we look back on history and judge the actors of that time period through the prism of our current times: Facts are, TIMES WERE DIFFERENT BACK THEN! Perhaps FDR was who we needed at a time when we needed him. Its just hard for me to stomach his socialist policies.
    talaniman's Avatar
    talaniman Posts: 54,051, Reputation: 10852
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    #62

    Sep 13, 2019, 07:29 AM
    As I read it the congress always twarted his lagresses, but what socialists policies are you talking about that so aggrieves you?
    Vacuum7's Avatar
    Vacuum7 Posts: 44, Reputation: 2
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    #63

    Sep 13, 2019, 07:03 PM
    Talaniman: From a domestic standpoint, I was speaking to certain acts he undertook as part of the New Deal, many of which are still with us today.....the one that was particularly bad was the payment to farmers to leave land Farrell (unplanted)Ö.this one has also stayed with us, too.

    From and international respect, the irritant for me was that FDR hated General Francisco Franco, the Spanish Head Of State, for no good reason other than he was Fascist.....Franco did nothing but save his country from a Marxist coup d'ťtat that was in the works well before he showed up to defend the people of Spain....Franco did accept Italian and German assistance during the Spanish Civil War but he did not join the Axis during WWII.....it didn't matter to FDR, he still hated Franco. My opinions may be a bit jaded or colored on this because of relatives on my Mother's side who were Franco supporters from Spain....but this is what they have told me.
    talaniman's Avatar
    talaniman Posts: 54,051, Reputation: 10852
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    #64

    Sep 14, 2019, 05:57 AM
    FDR a popular giant of his time was hard pressed to deal with some very dire circumstances of that era. I don't put him on the same pedestal, as he did a lot of good, and somethings not so good, given the politics of the time. There was more than just facism about Franco that FDR hated. I mean the guy was a brutal dictator above all else, from what I read, and lead a bloody divisive regime at the time. Like the dufus supporters, if you are on his side you would see things differently than those that are not, but history is not kind to Franco if the facts are true. The dufus's history is still being written.

    I ain't a supporter of the dufus, and have yet to see any good he has done and that includes his only accomplishment of tax cuts for the rich that every repub does when the dems have stabilized the economy in my lifetime, except Bush I, faced with a looming recession, and deficits, after promising not to raise taxes though Reagan to his credit did several times in his eight years, modestly though, and lowered them just as modestly. The aggregate was lower taxes, but Bush got booted for that common sense tactic at the time so we get Clinton, who RAISED taxes on his way to balancing the budget, by cutting military spending in "peace" time, and reforming domestic programs while expanding local economies. Boy was I making money in the 90's, but people are raising hell over some of those policies NOW, and rightfully so as like FDR, a lot of people were left out of the party times big time.

    My record though is perfect, because I survived all those presidents and their policies, and God willing, I'll survive this dufus!
    Vacuum7's Avatar
    Vacuum7 Posts: 44, Reputation: 2
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    #65

    Sep 14, 2019, 06:08 AM
    Talaniman: Excellent capture of the historical account!

    I have a feeling that you will be just fine with this POTUS.....whenever he leaves office.
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    talaniman Posts: 54,051, Reputation: 10852
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    #66

    Sep 14, 2019, 06:54 AM
    I think you must always strive to survive and thrive in any circumstance Vac.
    jlisenbe's Avatar
    jlisenbe Posts: 3,264, Reputation: 154
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    #67

    Sep 14, 2019, 07:09 AM
    I ain't a supporter of the dufus, and have yet to see any good he has done and that includes his only accomplishment of tax cuts for the rich that every repub does when the dems have stabilized the economy in my lifetime,
    That one made me laugh. If you want to say that Obama "stabilized" the economy, then fine, but he did so by doubling the national debt. It is only under Mr. Trump that the economy has gone beyond "stable" and is setting records for low unemployment. And yet you can't see that?

    so we get Clinton, who RAISED taxes on his way to balancing the budget, by cutting military spending in "peace" time, and reforming domestic programs while expanding local economies.
    The only way Clinton got to balanced budgets was because he worked with a republican Congress led by Newt Gingrich. This was back before the federal government was paralyzed by mutual hatred. A key ingredient was welfare reform, insisted on by the republicans, which controlled spending in that area, and an economy that was doing really well. And, of course, Clinton's problem with abusing women wasn't mentioned as well. But like you, I do give him credit for creating the last of the budget surpluses. I liked some things about Bush, but he should have his rear end kicked for his immediate return to deficit spending.
    talaniman's Avatar
    talaniman Posts: 54,051, Reputation: 10852
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    #68

    Sep 14, 2019, 07:28 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by jlisenbe View Post
    That one made me laugh. If you want to say that Obama "stabilized" the economy, then fine, but he did so by doubling the national debt. It is only under Mr. Trump that the economy has gone beyond "stable" and is setting records for low unemployment. And yet you can't see that?
    The unemployment numbers have been trending down for years as well as modest economic growth, and deficit spending under the dufus has grown steadily thanks to his ill timed deficit funded tax cuts that have failed to produce more growth, or juice the economy. LOL, maybe in your world the economy is beyond stable, but many Americans ain't feeling what you're feeling at this time. Of course, maybe you can't see that, but economic health is a lot more that unemployment numbers, or Wall Street projections. Some sectors are doing worse than others and whole towns are struggling once you get out in the countryside in many states.

    The only way Clinton got to balanced budgets was because he worked with a republican Congress led by Newt Gingrich. This was back before the federal government was paralyzed by mutual hatred. A key ingredient was welfare reform, insisted on by the republicans, which controlled spending in that area, and an economy that was doing really well. And, of course, Clinton's problem with abusing women wasn't mentioned as well. But like you, I do give him credit for creating the last of the budget surpluses. I liked some things about Bush, but he should have his rear end kicked for his immediate return to deficit spending.
    I predict the dufus will be raising the debt and deficit in a few short weeks and join the other presidents before him in even MORE deficit spending. The feelings cut both ways about the dufus as they did Obama either you were for them, or against them. and we both know that working together gets it done, and NOT working together get's nothing done, so maybe when the dufus has to work with a dem congress he may do better if he doesn't get booted out, impeached, or carted off to jail.
    jlisenbe's Avatar
    jlisenbe Posts: 3,264, Reputation: 154
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    #69

    Sep 14, 2019, 08:04 AM
    maybe in your world the economy is beyond stable, but many Americans ain't feeling what you're feeling at this time. Of course, maybe you can't see that, but economic health is a lot more that unemployment numbers, or Wall Street projections. Some sectors are doing worse than others and whole towns are struggling once you get out in the countryside in many states.
    The glass is 9/10 full and yet you complain. Some sectors are doing worse than others? You know of a period of time in American history when that was not true?

    I predict the dufus will be raising the debt and deficit in a few short weeks and join the other presidents before him in even MORE deficit spending. The feelings cut both ways about the dufus as they did Obama either you were for them, or against them. and we both know that working together gets it done, and NOT working together get's nothing done, so maybe when the dufus has to work with a dem congress he may do better if he doesn't get booted out, impeached, or carted off to jail.
    It always gets my attention when a person is so critical of Trump for doing exactly what Obama did, and yet never can be critical of Obama. If Trump is wrong to engage in deficit spending, and in my view he is terribly wrong to do so, then wasn't Obama wrong as well? Maybe you can make excuses for the first year or two, but for all eight years???
    talaniman's Avatar
    talaniman Posts: 54,051, Reputation: 10852
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    #70

    Sep 14, 2019, 09:50 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by jlisenbe View Post
    The glass is 9/10 full and yet you complain. Some sectors are doing worse than others? You know of a period of time in American history when that was not true?
    I argue with your 9/10ths full glass figure, as the elderly, the young and the displaced, as well as the traumatized may not agree, nor the millions of females and minorities slipping through the ever widening cracks of the dufus policies, both foreign and domestic which from your comfortable perch you easily dismiss as unimportant. Just like the dufus. That's sad.

    It always gets my attention when a person is so critical of Trump for doing exactly what Obama did, and yet never can be critical of Obama. If Trump is wrong to engage in deficit spending, and in my view he is terribly wrong to do so, then wasn't Obama wrong as well? Maybe you can make excuses for the first year or two, but for all eight years???
    Obama was cleaning up a global mess, and government is the last resort in such economically negative times, yet the dufus and you think you can take full credit for his efforts (Even you concede Obama stabilized things from chaos), yet cannot grasp that the dufus inheriting a STABLE economy is spending like a drunk sailor on that credit card that needs paying.

    A very real difference my friend as raising that debt limit even higher looms large. The last 6 years repubs went along with that deficit spending you blame on just Obama, but you can't seem to acknowledge that. However forget the past for now, it's more important to deal with the present and the problems in our face. LOL, I have long acknowledged the good both Nixon, Reagan, and Bush have done despite blasting them too, so let leave Obama alone as obviously I'm to busy blasting the dufus to revisit the Obama flaws and mistakes you so easily keep front and center.

    I'm go into have my fun my friend no matter how it aggravates you, or your fellow conservatives to have a stick poked up the dufus's arse every chance I get. You'll survive.
    jlisenbe's Avatar
    jlisenbe Posts: 3,264, Reputation: 154
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    #71

    Sep 14, 2019, 10:08 AM
    I argue with your 9/10ths full glass figure, as the elderly, the young and the displaced, as well as the traumatized may not agree, nor the millions of females and minorities slipping through the ever widening cracks of the dufus policies, both foreign and domestic which from your comfortable perch you easily dismiss as unimportant. Just like the dufus. That's sad.
    What is sad is that you're just making it up as you go along. The "traumatized"??? You have no evidence for any of those groups.

    As to the deficit, there is no end of the excuses you make for eight years of Obama's fantastic overspending. The repubs tried to stop it, but every time they were accused of shutting down the government and, with the national media always obedient to their master, Mr. Obama, they had no chance to win that battle.

    There is a difference between the two of us. I hate deficit spending no matter who does it. You support everything Obama and nothing Trump. It would be nice of you to develop some consistency in supporting policies rather than politicians.
    tomder55's Avatar
    tomder55 Posts: 1,741, Reputation: 341
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    #72

    Sep 14, 2019, 10:38 AM
    update time from the Washington Post .
    1.
    Approximately six percent of those crews stayed at the Trump Turnberry
    ďAs a practice, we generally send aircrews to the closest, most suitable accommodations within the government hotel rate. The review also indicated that about 75 percent of the crews stayed in the immediate vicinity of the airfield and 18 percent stayed in Glasgow.Ē

    2.
    The stays result from two separate agreements that both predate Trumpís presidency. Before Trump ran for president, the airport agreed to send visiting crews to Trumpís course. And while President Barack Obama was still in office, the Air Force agreed to send refueling aircraft to the airport.

    3. there is no evidence that Trump changed the terms of the deal since he became President .
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...e1c_story.html

    From the NY Times .
    4.
    the deal involved the Air Force paying a discounted rate of as little as $130 a night, compared with a typical rate of more than $300 a night.
    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/12/u...core-ios-share

    5 . Rep Adam Kinzinger (retired pilot ANG ) has this to say.....
    For everyone still spinning up over this story, I have a spoiler alert: not everyone in an aircrew will be happy with every accommodation, whether itís a Trump hotel or a cheap motel down the road.I preferred the nicer places during my time in the Air Force, but some I flew with preferred to pocket the extra money.Itís a choice, and itís that of our service members to make Ė not the firing squads on Twitter. And this choice is in the regulation written by our Department of Defense.
    jlisenbe's Avatar
    jlisenbe Posts: 3,264, Reputation: 154
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    #73

    Sep 14, 2019, 10:42 AM
    Well, that settles it. He needs to be impeached.
    Wondergirl's Avatar
    Wondergirl Posts: 37,828, Reputation: 5427
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    #74

    Sep 14, 2019, 11:00 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by jlisenbe View Post
    Well, that settles it. He needs to be impeached.
    Yes, definitely! Trump is using the office of the President to enrich himself.
    jlisenbe's Avatar
    jlisenbe Posts: 3,264, Reputation: 154
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    #75

    Sep 14, 2019, 11:55 AM
    Uhm...sarcasm.

    Now if you can show us where he has used his office to enrich himself, it would be something to see. No one else seems to have been able to do that.
    Wondergirl's Avatar
    Wondergirl Posts: 37,828, Reputation: 5427
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    #76

    Sep 14, 2019, 12:55 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by jlisenbe View Post
    Uhm...sarcasm.

    Now if you can show us where he has used his office to enrich himself, it would be something to see. No one else seems to have been able to do that.
    Sarcasm again! You are so silly! He's a BUSINESSMAN!
    talaniman's Avatar
    talaniman Posts: 54,051, Reputation: 10852
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    #77

    Sep 14, 2019, 01:04 PM
    You know how it works JL, the investigation(S) continue.
    jlisenbe's Avatar
    jlisenbe Posts: 3,264, Reputation: 154
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    #78

    Sep 14, 2019, 01:42 PM
    He's a BUSINESSMAN!
    So he's automatically guilty??? Really??

    You know how it works JL, the investigation(S) continue.
    Yes it does. Endlessly. Nauseating politics.
    Wondergirl's Avatar
    Wondergirl Posts: 37,828, Reputation: 5427
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    #79

    Sep 14, 2019, 01:53 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by jlisenbe View Post
    So he's automatically guilty??? Really??
    Feel free to google this with a variety of keywords. The information is out there on a number of websites.
    jlisenbe's Avatar
    jlisenbe Posts: 3,264, Reputation: 154
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    #80

    Sep 14, 2019, 02:24 PM
    Feel free to google this with a variety of keywords. The information is out there on a number of websites.
    You want me to google this "with a variety of keywords"? So you want ME to look up the evidence to verify YOUR allegation? Think I'll pass on that. I won't ask you to back up my statements if you won't ask me to back up yours.

    Honestly, it would just seem logical that you have no evidence to present. If you did, you wouldn't punt the ball back to me. I don't mean that to be ugly. It's just foreign to me to ask someone else to look for my evidence. Don't understand it.

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