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    tomder55's Avatar
    tomder55 Posts: 1,741, Reputation: 341
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    #41

    Sep 10, 2019, 09:27 AM
    I'm a little leery that there are more than two dozen hotels near Prestwick that are cheaper than Trump Turnberry, but I'll wait and see what Politico turns up.
    This is from the NY Times ;
    The crew, which consisted of active duty and national guard members from Alaska, was charged $136 per room, which was less expensive than a Marriott property’s rate of $161. And both were under the per diem rate of $166.

    Air Force landings @ Prestwick rose from 180 in 2017 to 257 last year and 259 so far this year. But Lt. Gen. Jon T. Thomas, the deputy commander of the Air Force Air Mobility Command, said in an interview on Monday that the rising number of military stopovers at Prestwick was entirely based on operational demands, as the airport is in a convenient location, has 24-hour operations and offers ample aircraft parking, among other advantages. He added that the Air Force has been using Prestwick for stopovers since at least the late 1990s.


    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/09/u...turnberry.html
    Athos's Avatar
    Athos Posts: 496, Reputation: 54
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    #42

    Sep 10, 2019, 10:22 AM
    From the same article - there's always more to the story when Trump is involved. The Air Force is still checking.


    But documents obtained from Scottish government agencies show that the Trump Organization, and Mr. Trump himself, played a direct role in setting up an arrangement between the Turnberry resort and officials at Glasgow Prestwick Airport.

    The government records, released through Scottish Freedom of Information law, show that the Trump organization, starting in 2014, entered a partnership with the airport to try to increase private and commercial air traffic to the region.

    As part of that arrangement, the Trump Organization worked to get Trump Turnberry added to a list of hotels that the airport would routinely send aircrews to, even though the Turnberry resort is 20 miles from the airport, farther away than many other hotels, and has higher advertised prices.
    jlisenbe's Avatar
    jlisenbe Posts: 3,264, Reputation: 154
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    #43

    Sep 10, 2019, 11:32 AM
    The article said all of this (the business arrangements) happened from 2014 to 2016 before Trump was president. Why is it an issue?
    tomder55's Avatar
    tomder55 Posts: 1,741, Reputation: 341
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    #44

    Sep 10, 2019, 01:16 PM
    yeah I mentioned in earlier comments that the airport doing well was important to Trump's resort . But his involvement was in 2014 and Air Force landings there began years before Trump became President . I think this is just one more fishing expedition by Cummings . Got no issue with the Air Force reviewing protocol.
    talaniman's Avatar
    talaniman Posts: 54,051, Reputation: 10852
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    #45

    Sep 10, 2019, 03:29 PM
    If the traffic has increased since the dufus became president, Cummings would be quite derelict in his duty if he didn't look into this. Definitely review the Air Force protocols on such matters. I mean shouldn't you look into the appearance of hanky panky to make sure it's not full blown corruption?
    Vacuum7's Avatar
    Vacuum7 Posts: 44, Reputation: 2
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    #46

    Sep 10, 2019, 03:36 PM
    I must say: Cummings and Nadler are the WORST FISHERMEN I have ever seen! How long have they been fishing for that Trump Fish now? They haven't so much as had a nibble much less a bite. They just can't seen to catch anything! And The Penguin (Nadler) is near comical in his vain attempts to be serious and scowling all the time.....guy needs to lighten-up some.

    Meanwhile, Teflon Don, just dropped Bolton on his head: Another example: Dissention WILL NOT be tolerated. Honestly, that is the way it should be at that level, you are either IN or OUT and you are either with us or against us.

    Two rules on the Trump Administration: Rule #1: Trump will take his own decisions and Rule #2: You can't do anything about Rule #1.
    jlisenbe's Avatar
    jlisenbe Posts: 3,264, Reputation: 154
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    #47

    Sep 10, 2019, 04:32 PM
    Two rules on the Trump Administration: Rule #1: Trump will take his own decisions and Rule #2: You can't do anything about Rule #1.
    A little scary.
    talaniman's Avatar
    talaniman Posts: 54,051, Reputation: 10852
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    #48

    Sep 10, 2019, 05:09 PM
    Rule is the way of dictators, monardhs and despots. I would much prefer he governed with consensus. yeah, that's more that a little scary.
    Vacuum7's Avatar
    Vacuum7 Posts: 44, Reputation: 2
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    #49

    Sep 10, 2019, 05:10 PM
    jlisenbe: No, not scary: This used to be Standard Operating Practice amongst men....and history has many examples of this, amongst them were the taken decisions of President Truman when: 1) He decided to drop the A-Bombs during WWII despite many around him advising otherwise and 2) He decided to fire General MacArthur during the Korean conflict despite many around him advising otherwise. You also saw it in President Reagan when he listened to advisors and walked out and fired all of the on-strike Air Traffic Controllers.

    Today, being decisive is widely frowned upon.....today, it is more acceptable to have "Analysis Paralysis" because most men are TOO AFRAID OF MAKING MISTAKES.....to make a mistake, today, is just something that crushes people and they cannot take it, it wrecks their psyches. Trump doesn't have that problem....he doesn't have that fear and, so, he is able to take decisions and live with them, rightly or wrongly.

    Now, whether you like or do not like Trump is not nearly as important as is knowing that Trump is pretty fearless.....and, I think, most of us, deep down, want a leader who is fearless.
    talaniman's Avatar
    talaniman Posts: 54,051, Reputation: 10852
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    #50

    Sep 10, 2019, 07:48 PM
    Fearless and ruling by fear are vastly different. I don't think it serves the country well nor respects the checks and balances that you need to collectively govern. Seems more like intentional chaos than effective good orderly direction.

    To each his own I suppose.
    Athos's Avatar
    Athos Posts: 496, Reputation: 54
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    #51

    Sep 11, 2019, 05:41 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by Vacuum7 View Post
    ...Trump is pretty fearless
    You're confusing fearless with feckless.
    tomder55's Avatar
    tomder55 Posts: 1,741, Reputation: 341
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    #52

    Sep 11, 2019, 09:23 AM
    I agree with Bolton's foreign policy positions much more than Trump with his belief that he can change the world through the sheer force of his personality . I think he weakens the US position when there is no extensive prep work before head to head meeting . I am hearing now that now Trump is trying to have head to head meetings with the head 12er Rouhani . Rouhani is not to be trusted .
    talaniman's Avatar
    talaniman Posts: 54,051, Reputation: 10852
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    #53

    Sep 11, 2019, 09:29 AM
    I don't trust the dufus, but agree totally with the prep work. I can't stand this hurry up and take a picture crap! How phony is that?
    Athos's Avatar
    Athos Posts: 496, Reputation: 54
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    #54

    Sep 11, 2019, 03:32 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by Vacuum7 View Post
    Dissention WILL NOT be tolerated. Honestly, that is the way it should be at that level, you are either IN or OUT and you are either with us or against us.

    You have it backwards. As another president said, "I'm paying you a salary not to agree with me but to tell me what you think".
    paraclete's Avatar
    paraclete Posts: 2,704, Reputation: 171
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    #55

    Sep 11, 2019, 05:21 PM
    Bolton's foreign policy is now a mote point. Only one view prevailed, Trump is not the hawk Bolton is, perhaps he has learned something while in office. Is the world a safer place with Trump in office? perhaps. No new wars have been initiated which is more than can be said for the american presidents of the last thirty years before him.
    Vacuum7's Avatar
    Vacuum7 Posts: 44, Reputation: 2
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    #56

    Sep 11, 2019, 06:54 PM
    Athos: I've heard all the stuff about being able to disagree and various viewpoints are welcome....yep, heard that in meetings I've been in.....then was pulled to the side and scolded profoundly for not agreeing with "the boss", whom, I was told, was RIGHT even when he was WRONG! Heard that all my career......been beat down by it, not submitted yet, but beat down!

    Paraclete: There is something to be said about all the crazy SOBs around the world going to sleep at night worrying about what the crazy SOB President of The U.S. was going to do next....instead of the other way around! kind of keeps the crazies guessing!

    Talaniman: Government is disfunctional right now.....it is upside down....there is no communication....particularly between Congress and Senate....and Executive, really, is the only entity that has real leadership.....in other words: You look at the Whitehouse and YOU KNOW who is in charge.....you might not agree with him but you know Trump is in charge....people tend to gravitate toward what they feel is strong. Trump won't be challenged in public but I think you can challenge him in private without fear of retributions.
    paraclete's Avatar
    paraclete Posts: 2,704, Reputation: 171
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    #57

    Sep 11, 2019, 11:24 PM
    Paraclete: There is something to be said about all the crazy SOBs around the world going to sleep at night worrying about what the crazy SOB President of The U.S. was going to do next....instead of the other way around! kind of keeps the crazies guessing!
    Clearly, this strategy is not working. I personally would prefer that the US President is not the crazy SOB he appears to be
    talaniman's Avatar
    talaniman Posts: 54,051, Reputation: 10852
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    #58

    Sep 12, 2019, 07:07 AM
    Athos: I've heard all the stuff about being able to disagree and various viewpoints are welcome....yep, heard that in meetings I've been in.....then was pulled to the side and scolded profoundly for not agreeing with "the boss", whom, I was told, was RIGHT even when he was WRONG! Heard that all my career......been beat down by it, not submitted yet, but beat down!

    So why do you think it's the right thing to do for the dufus to beat down his subordinates to keep them in line?


    Paraclete: There is something to be said about all the crazy SOBs around the world going to sleep at night worrying about what the crazy SOB President of The U.S. was going to do next....instead of the other way around! kind of keeps the crazies guessing!

    Those crazy sobs around the world aren't guessing, they have and always have had an agenda for power control and getting more wealth for themselves, That's just what they do so just as the dufus does to with the same instruments of fear and hate and surronded by enough sycophants to acheive that end.


    Talaniman: Government is disfunctional right now.....it is upside down....there is no communication....particularly between Congress and Senate....and Executive, really, is the only entity that has real leadership.....in other words: You look at the Whitehouse and YOU KNOW who is in charge.....you might not agree with him but you know Trump is in charge....people tend to gravitate toward what they feel is strong. Trump won't be challenged in public but I think you can challenge him in private without fear of retributions.

    Granted our government has been dysfunctional for a long time, divided effectively by tribal differences and agendas a lot higher up than main street who has borne the brunt of that dysfunction, which is INTENTIONAL. Oldest tactic in the book divide and conquer is, and obviously it works rather well.

    No you will not challenge the dufus in private for long because his sycophants and yes men below him won't tolerate it if you are a threat to their power and position. Yeah it seems right now the dufus is a real force compared to the antics of Moscow Mitch and repubs united in doing absolutely nothing to rock the boat.

    That's not their job. It is the job of the American voters though to correct that dysfunction.

    Vacuum7's Avatar
    Vacuum7 Posts: 44, Reputation: 2
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    #59

    Sep 12, 2019, 03:31 PM
    Talaniman: You rascal! You make some really good points, as usual......I will think these through!
    jlisenbe's Avatar
    jlisenbe Posts: 3,264, Reputation: 154
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    #60

    Sep 12, 2019, 03:50 PM
    Granted our government has been dysfunctional for a long time, divided effectively by tribal differences and agendas a lot higher up than main street who has borne the brunt of that dysfunction, which is INTENTIONAL. Oldest tactic in the book divide and conquer is, and obviously it works rather well.
    True. Both parties practice it because they see in it the ability to weaken the opposition. Hopefully there must be some "cause" above our tribal affiliations that will join us together rather than pull us apart. It takes true leadership to take us in that direction. The last pres I can think of who did this, even in some degree, was Reagan. Probably Roosevelt did this as well even though I don't like much of what he did.

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