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    paraclete's Avatar
    paraclete Posts: 2,706, Reputation: 173
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    #1

    Aug 14, 2019, 08:59 PM
    How far from reality have we moved
    Australia, which from a carbon emissions perspective emits a little more than 1% of so called carbon pollution has been told by pacific island nations it must abondon its coal fired power stations and coal mines in order to prevent the effects of climate change.

    This has happened at the Pacific Islands Forum, an important meeting of small nations, many of whom suffer the effects of rising waters. No mention of the big contributors, China and the US. No, we destroy our industries so we can be said to have done something which will do nothing to solve their problem, which happens to be that they settled on sand spits which are inundated at high tide. What I say is, we will accept these people when they decide to become refugees and cease clinging to their sinking islands. So, China can build sand islands let China contribute its expertise to build up these places or do the very thing they want us to do, abandon their industries
    talaniman's Avatar
    talaniman Posts: 54,327, Reputation: 10855
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    #2

    Aug 15, 2019, 04:26 AM
    Relationships are complicated aren't they?
    paraclete's Avatar
    paraclete Posts: 2,706, Reputation: 173
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    #3

    Aug 15, 2019, 06:33 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by talaniman View Post
    Relationships are complicated aren't they?
    It depends whether you want to swim with minnows or sharks
    talaniman's Avatar
    talaniman Posts: 54,327, Reputation: 10855
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    #4

    Aug 15, 2019, 11:01 AM
    Sharks can sneak up on you and cause a lot of damage.
    paraclete's Avatar
    paraclete Posts: 2,706, Reputation: 173
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    #5

    Aug 15, 2019, 04:17 PM
    Indeed, witness the damage at the moment
    talaniman's Avatar
    talaniman Posts: 54,327, Reputation: 10855
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    #6

    Aug 15, 2019, 05:30 PM
    Exactly what kind of damage are those island nations doing to you?
    paraclete's Avatar
    paraclete Posts: 2,706, Reputation: 173
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    #7

    Aug 15, 2019, 06:32 PM
    None, they claim we are doing damage to them when, if AGW is to be believed, the very people who are doing the damage are China and the US. But it is rhetoric, reinforcing the dogma that we have to destroy our economy and beggar our people so a few can continue to live their idylic existence when the answer is apparent as it has been for thousands of years, migrate. We therefore become the bad people, the oppressors, when we spend our aid to help these people
    talaniman's Avatar
    talaniman Posts: 54,327, Reputation: 10855
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    #8

    Aug 15, 2019, 07:44 PM
    You guys taking migrants after their island flood?
    paraclete's Avatar
    paraclete Posts: 2,706, Reputation: 173
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    #9

    Aug 15, 2019, 09:03 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by talaniman View Post
    You guys taking migrants after their island flood?
    I'm sure both Kiwi and OZ would take them but no, they want to stay where they are. We are not talking of a large population, it wouldn't even put a dint in our annual intake and I'm sure our agricultural industries could use the labour, we already have labour programs for people of the region.

    No it is just more opportunity for the Greenies and the UN lie makers to beat us up
    talaniman's Avatar
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    #10

    Aug 16, 2019, 07:48 AM
    Politics is like that. Politicians never pass on an opportunity to make a point.
    tomder55's Avatar
    tomder55 Posts: 1,742, Reputation: 346
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    #11

    Aug 16, 2019, 08:39 AM
    with scrubbers and CCS ,coal use should no longer be a major issue
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    #12

    Aug 16, 2019, 08:58 AM
    oops wrong topic
    talaniman's Avatar
    talaniman Posts: 54,327, Reputation: 10855
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    #13

    Aug 16, 2019, 09:01 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by tomder55 View Post
    with scrubbers and CCS ,coal use should no longer be a major issue

    You would think but the initial expense is hard to mitigate, and the waste product has to be CORRECTLY stored and processed and that's expensive. Not a lot of scrubbers being installed, and didn't the dufus nix those requirements for new plants?
    tomder55's Avatar
    tomder55 Posts: 1,742, Reputation: 346
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    #14

    Aug 16, 2019, 09:36 AM
    nope all he did was reverse the emperor's Clean Power Plan that was having a negligible impact on global temperatures but was job killers for people in the coal states .He is replacing it with
    Affordable Clean Energy Rule, or ACE.

    The emperor's goal was the reinvent the American energy economy .That isn't on the agenda for ACE This isn't giving coal or any other energy source a license to pollute. ACE
    sets the same emissions targets at the Clean Power Plan did.


    talaniman's Avatar
    talaniman Posts: 54,327, Reputation: 10855
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    #15

    Aug 16, 2019, 09:54 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by tomder55 View Post
    nope all he did was reverse the emperor's Clean Power Plan that was having a negligible impact on global temperatures but was job killers for people in the coal states .He is replacing it with
    Affordable Clean Energy Rule, or ACE.

    The emperor's goal was the reinvent the American energy economy .That isn't on the agenda for ACE This isn't giving coal or any other energy source a license to pollute. ACE
    sets the same emissions targets at the Clean Power Plan did.


    ACE is so watered down you may as well have repealed the Obama act and gone with NOTHING. Saved the energy companies billions, but won't help your asthma one bit. Makes it worse, so yeah it is a license to pollute.
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    #16

    Aug 16, 2019, 10:18 AM
    restrictions were already in place and had been for a long time before the emperor . Acid rain from coal was eliminated years ago with scrubbers . The only emission left was CO2 . That is addressed in ACE with exactly the same goals as the CPP …...the difference is that it's goal is not to kill the industry . Face facts ;many underdeveloped countries are looking to make their economies 1st world . That requires an abundance of energy. Are you really going to try and convince them that the path we took is not open to them ?
    talaniman's Avatar
    talaniman Posts: 54,327, Reputation: 10855
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    #17

    Aug 16, 2019, 10:57 AM
    Not at all if they can afford it, and that's up to them, but as I said what we do here is up to us. and we have the technology to greatly scale up our own energy needs with clean energy. The dufus plan cuts the COSTS of meeting targets for plants by eliminating those procedures that Obama put in place, mostly the checks and testing regimes thus making those testers unneeded by the EPA, as well as lengthening the required reporting, that may trigger those procedures.

    You end up with more profits, sure but more pollution of land and water since essentially what you have done is return to practices before Obamas regulation, and slowed down the forward progress of developing those alternatives to coal. I know I read the thing, and it's a return to business as usual with industry basically regulating themselves akin to the fox guarding the henhouse. Even if you don't believe in climate change the data shows the global warming, and that's the trend man wants to mitigate, but the dufus plan will add to it for sure.

    Yes maybe the Earth cycle is to get warmer, but should man throw gasoline on a fire that's burning? of course not, but he should adapt to the changes proactively until the next ice age starts.
    tomder55's Avatar
    tomder55 Posts: 1,742, Reputation: 346
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    #18

    Aug 16, 2019, 11:06 AM
    so when are you bicycling to your new grass and mud yurt ?
    Specter1's Avatar
    Specter1 Posts: 85, Reputation: 2
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    #19

    Aug 16, 2019, 08:11 PM
    The ocean has risen and fallen many times in the history of this planet, and I have no sympathy for those who choose to live in the path of the oncoming tide. I welcome the return of Niobraran Sea. Wanna buy some oceanfront land in Tennessee?

    https://www.researchgate.net/profile...ion-of-the.png
    paraclete's Avatar
    paraclete Posts: 2,706, Reputation: 173
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    #20

    Aug 16, 2019, 08:23 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by Specter1 View Post
    The ocean has risen and fallen many times in the history of this planet, and I have no sympathy for those who choose to live in the path of the oncoming tide. I welcome the return of Niobraran Sea. Wanna buy some oceanfront land in Tennessee?

    https://www.researchgate.net/profile...ion-of-the.png
    No, I'm staying away from ocean front land, view is nice, but there are other draw backs

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