[paraclete]

Yeah. So easy you can't do it.

No you can't do it because you are lazy it would seem Tal is right so read the section on the US

[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Tahoma,Calibri,Geneva,sans-serif]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_subsidies#Allocation_of_subsidies_in_the_Un ited_States[/FONT]

[jlisenbe]

No you can't do it because you are lazy it would seem Tal is right so read the section on the US

I never said he was wrong. I asked if coal had subsidies and he said it did but provided no references. It is not my job to do his research. There has been a general movement against coal in the U.S. recently, so that's why I asked. If you are going to comment, it would help if you would keep up.

As to your opinion of my laziness, there are not words to describe how little I care what you think.

[paraclete]

I never said he was wrong. I asked if coal had subsidies and he said it did but provided no references. It is not my job to do his research. There has been a general movement against coal in the U.S. recently, so that's why I asked. If you are going to comment, it would help if you would keep up.

As to your opinion of my laziness, there are not words to describe how little I care what you think.

Yes I have a similar opinion of you but the argument isn't just coal or fossil fuels, it is this whole spectrum of the nonsense of trying to offset global warming by reducing CO2

[talaniman]

Globally, if the big polluters invest in reducing CO2 emissions, then others will seize the chance to profit from that action. That has always been the problem, getting everybody on the same page and if there is a dollar to be made investors will follow the money, no matter the long term consequences. that's just the history of man. Chase profit until you cannot.

[jlisenbe]

Globally, if the big polluters invest in reducing CO2 emissions,

Any "investment" in reducing carbon emissions will result in higher electrical bills. Yet another cruel cost hike for the poor.

[talaniman]

The point behind some of the energy subsidies was to make it affordable. States run a program to help the poor pay heating/electric bills.

[Athos]

Any "investment" in reducing carbon emissions will result in higher electrical bills. Yet another cruel cost hike for the poor.

I'm LMAO at your new found concern for the poor. In this life, you whine and rail about your anger when your taxes are spent for programs for the poor. But you can't leave it at that.

In the next life, you follow those poor into that life by condemning to eternal torture those poor who may believe differently than you do - the "unbelievers".

These are your words, not mine.

At least you are consistent in your disdain and hatred for the poor.

[jlisenbe]

The point behind some of the energy subsidies was to make it affordable. States run a program to help the poor pay heating/electric bills.

One way or the other, costs go up needlessly. And for the person making 50K a year and not eligible for programs, a doubling of his/her electric bill is going to be a problem.

[talaniman]

Ben there done that, in my life. No choice but to pay the electric, but it's tough when you need car repairs and new shoes for the kids. Those making that 50K should be grateful for the resources to deal with such situations, because but for the grace of God, they could be walking in the shoes of those that don't make that 50K. Been there done that too.

That's why corporate welfare and a rich guy complaining about his high taxes burns my butt! More unacceptable is giving them a windfall on MY and my kids credit card! Greedy ungrateful b@stards!

[jlisenbe]

Ben there done that, in my life. No choice but to pay the electric, but it's tough when you need car repairs and new shoes for the kids. Those making that 50K should be grateful for the resources to deal with such situations, because but for the grace of God, they could be walking in the shoes of those that don't make that 50K. Been there done that too.

50K is not living high on the hog. We ought to be looking out for those people rather than saddling them with higher bills which accomplish very little.

That's why corporate welfare and a rich guy complaining about his high taxes burns my butt! More unacceptable is giving them a windfall on MY and my kids credit card! Greedy ungrateful b@stards!

You ought to be glad for those people. For the 500th time, the top 20% of taxpayers pay more than 85% of income taxes. What a windfall.

[paraclete]

50K is not living high on the hog. We ought to be looking out for those people rather than saddling them with higher bills which accomplish very little.



You ought to be glad for those people. For the 500th time, the top 20% of taxpayers pay more than 85% of income taxes. What a windfall.

You can tell any story with statistics, it is obvious people with the money pay the tax, what you haven't said is why the 80% pay less tax. It is because the wealth isn't in their hands. Anyway it is all an illusion because income tax only accounts for about half taxation revenue

[talaniman]

You should be a lot more sympathetic to the working poor and those people who make 20K. The top 20% have enough wealth to live high off the hog and loopholes and tax shelters to defend themselves very well.

For the 500th time, the top 20% of taxpayers pay more than 85% of income taxes. What a windfall.

You paid for it, they didn't earn it, and it adds to the debt. Rich people welfare. They have no need for your sympathy when they have your money.

You can tell any story with statistics, it is obvious people with the money pay the tax, what you haven't said is why the 80% pay less tax. It is because the wealth isn't in their hands. Anyway it is all an illusion because income tax only accounts for about half taxation revenue

Thank you Clete. The dufus economy is a$$ backwards to sound fiscal policy

https://www.thebalance.com/current-u...evenue-3305762

[jlisenbe]

You paid for it, they didn't earn it, and it adds to the debt. Rich people welfare. They have no need for your sympathy when they have your money.

In what possible universe do you consider the top 20% of income earners paying more than 85% of the income tax some sort of welfare for the rich??? And when you add in that the lowest 50% of income earners pay next to nothing, it is really hard to justify your story of the wealthy somehow being able to avoid paying taxes.

[talaniman]

Hourly working people pay payroll taxes don't they? Even after a refund it's hardly enough to get out of poverty so what's your bias against working poor, or low income folks?

[jlisenbe]

Hourly working people pay payroll taxes don't they? Even after a refund it's hardly enough to get out of poverty so what's your bias against working poor, or low income folks?

By payroll tax I assume you mean Social Security which is technically not a tax. You are buying participation in a retirement/med care plan. For you to say I have a bias against the poor is just nonsense. I've said nothing to that effect other than to say that the lower 50% basically do not pay income tax. I have no idea how pointing out that they don't pay income tax somehow amounts to being biased against the poor.

[paraclete]

By payroll tax I assume you mean Social Security which is technically not a tax. You are buying participation in a retirement/med care plan. For you to say I have a bias against the poor is just nonsense. I've said nothing to that effect other than to say that the lower 50% basically do not pay income tax. I have no idea how pointing out that they don't pay income tax somehow amounts to being biased against the poor.

I don't see the logic of your argument. You say that those with low income don't pay income tax, but they pay other taxes, so they are not getting a free ride. In fact, the impact of taxation on them is greater than it is on that top 20% you love so much.

[Athos]

For you to say I have a bias against the poor is just nonsense.

You have consistently shown attitudes against the poor revealed in your tax philosophy. "Blame the victim" is what you preach - a throwback to 1850 Victorian England.

[jlisenbe]

I don't see the logic of your argument. You say that those with low income don't pay income tax, but they pay other taxes, so they are not getting a free ride. In fact, the impact of taxation on them is greater than it is on that top 20% you love so much.

I'm not really making an argument. I'm simply pointing out that when the top 20% pay 85% of the income tax while the bottom 50% pay virtually nothing, then it's hard to make an argument that we have a tax policy that favors the rich. The bottom 50% most certainly are getting a free ride in the area of income tax.

The poor do pay social security IF they have jobs, but that is not a tax so much as it allows a person to participate in the fed's retirement/med care program. Now if you want to talk about sales taxes and property taxes, then the poor do pay those, but even then the wealthy pay a great deal more.

I would agree with anyone that the federal tax code is ridiculously over-complex and has many areas intended to give breaks to favored groups. I'd love to see the code for personal income tax greatly simplified so that most people could fill out an income tax form in about five minutes.

You have consistently shown attitudes against the poor revealed in your tax philosophy. "Blame the victim" is what you preach - a throwback to 1850 Victorian England.

You find the quotes from me where those "attitudes" have been shown. Otherwise just admit you are making it all up. "Blame the victim"? That made me laugh. I've done no such thing.

[talaniman]

As the poor get poorer they will have to take more of your money to feed them. As the rich get richer, they hoard more money. Then you will blame who for taking your money? How come you don't blame the dufus for taking your money and giving it to someone else? Or your local welfare department?

[jlisenbe]

As the poor get poorer they will have to take more of your money to feed them.

In this economy the poor are not getting poorer.

As the rich get richer, they hoard more money.

Rich people don't hoard money. Rich people spend and invest money which is a benefit to a lot of people.

Then you will blame who for taking your money? How come you don't blame the dufus for taking your money and giving it to someone else? Or your local welfare department?

No one is taking my money so I have no idea what you're talking about.