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talaniman · Jul 12, 2019, 09:57 AM

More wordy cop outs? Darn your good at it, but if you make trillions (As a collective, or billions, or millions, if you prefer) and pay NO tax, that's fair? Half the country can't afford a money manager and neither could you unless they cuts a deal for a 401K with your employer. Do the math, or look it up yourself, how many people are in the 1%? In the 20%? Do it on your own and let me know how that works out...if you can afford it.

How many people ain't in that investor class? Why aren't you? When is your state going to stop taking my states hard earned money? I can't comment on the SS gobble de goop you posted.

PS

How did the recession/depression in 2008 affect that 401k? Or mutual funds if you invested.

jlisenbe · Jul 12, 2019, 10:04 AM

More wordy cop outs? Darn your good at it, but if you make trillions (As a collective, or billions, or millions, if you prefer) and pay NO tax, that's fair?

OK. No one is making trillions, so that's make believe. As to the rest, all I know to say (again) is that the top 20% of income earners pay more than 85% of the income taxes. That's pretty good for a group of people who, according to you, pay no taxes.

How many people ain't in that investor class? Why aren't you?

I do invest in mutual funds and stocks. Anyone can do it, and in fact tens of millions of people do it either individually or through retirement plans.

Athos · Jul 12, 2019, 12:23 PM

Originally Posted by jlisenbe

OK. No one is making trillions, so that's make believe.

No one said that, so the make believe is all yours. Own it.

Tal's comment was collective or an aggregate.

jlisenbe · Jul 12, 2019, 12:59 PM

OK. So who makes trillions as a collective? Who, as a "collective", is making trillions in profits? Answer: No one. So it turns out to be make believe after all, and especially so if this "collective", this "aggregate" is making trillions but paying no taxes. It just doesn't exist. I understand that Tal was not trying to be specific with amounts. He was probably just exaggerating as many often do including me. It is not a big deal.

Besides all of that, I would happily agree that businesses and rich people should pay taxes, so we are in agreement with that, but when the top 20% is paying more than 85% of income taxes, then it's hard to make the argument that they are not doing so. I think libs have a hard case to make for "tax fairness" when the bottom half of income earners pay virtually no income tax and the top 20% carry very nearly all of it.

talaniman · Jul 13, 2019, 03:36 AM

You have your opinion of fairness and whether the government can take your money and give it to me, and all that crap, I have mine, but have you actually examined the logic of giving the wealthy even more wealth? I don't think it's fair that my government takes my money and gives it to a rich guy that pays me crumbs. I don't think it's fair you take his side without even knowing of the legal ways he buys lawmakers I elect to make tax laws and regulations that enrich him and leave me holding the bag for the shortfall. I don't think it's fair a rich guy can legally hide half his wealth in shelters and havens and pay NO tax, or YOU equating a rich guys taxes to a poor guys taxes without asking why is half the country of a rich nation with a great economy poor?

I don't think it's fair for job creators to subsidize there wages with tax payer dollars and pay no property taxes. Then close shop when the tax saving agreement is over, or worse move to other countries for cheap labor. Yeah those are the rich guys you give more money to while the make money selling stuff. Some don't do that, they just bet on stuff in the stock market and stuff the profits in the Cayman or something.

I don't think its fair to rail against those poor folks you say pay no taxes and complain how godless they are, while those rich guys get MO'Money to rape pillage and plunder, lie, cheat, and steal. I don't think its fair at all to beat and cage women and children that someone is getting rich for doing it, while you help some and disregard the rest.

I don't think its fair at all you tout a lying cheating dufus as a savior, because he gives you what you want, and always bad mouth the decent church going human who cleaned up the mess the rich guys made before. No doubt it's obvious your idea of fair doesn't work for me at all, but I am content to let the god you profess to believe in judge you and just find the joy in standing against whatever you poison you're peddling, in the hope someday you repent your wicked ways and see the light of truth...you have life and BS all mixed up, and your book can't save you, because that's your job, and a lousy one at that.

No RANT or sarcasm.

jlisenbe · Jul 13, 2019, 05:26 AM

I don't think it's fair that my government takes my money and gives it to a rich guy that pays me crumbs. I don't think it's fair you take his side without even knowing of the legal ways he buys lawmakers I elect to make tax laws and regulations that enrich him and leave me holding the bag for the shortfall. I don't think it's fair a rich guy can legally hide half his wealth in shelters and havens and pay NO tax, or YOU equating a rich guys taxes to a poor guys taxes without asking why is half the country of a rich nation with a great economy poor?

So I'll say it again in hope that maybe one day it will sink in. The top 20% of income earners in America pay 87% of the income taxes. The bottom 50% pay basically nothing. That is why I don't take your comments above seriously. It's just liberal talking points that are completely false.

complain how godless they are, while those rich guys get MO'Money to rape pillage and plunder, lie, cheat, and steal.

You really need to get a cup of coffee, calm down, and stop these rages of fantasy. And it is 100% a falsehood for you to say I have said the poor are godless. I've never said that.

Wondergirl · Jul 13, 2019, 09:13 AM

Tal, that was one of your best ever responses! - especially the part about people getting rich housing the very badly cared for asylum seekers in detention prison -- at $700-800 per day!!!! Am I a liberal? No, I'm a Republican AND a Christian who does her best to follow Jesus' two greatest commandments.

jlisenbe · Jul 13, 2019, 09:27 AM

people getting rich housing the very badly cared for asylum seekers in detention prison -- at $700-800 per day!!!!

1. That they are "very badly cared for" is, I think, an overstatement. They are fed, clothed, given med care, and kept in a secure place, and usually for a few weeks at most, or at least that is my understanding. I'm sure there have been some isolated failures, but they don't represent what is generally occurring.
2. Where did you find the information about hundreds of dollars a day? How do you know those people are getting rich?

Am I a liberal?

You sure sound like one. I am happy to hear of your commitment to the words of Christ, but I have trouble getting past your refusal weeks ago to join in a call for sexually responsible behavior leading to a greatly diminished out of wedlock birth rate. I don't see how your refusal there can correspond to the two commandments your referenced.

It is nice to see you posting again.

Wondergirl · Jul 13, 2019, 11:07 AM

1. That they are "very badly cared for" is, I think, an overstatement. They are fed, clothed, given med care, and kept in a secure place

Vice President Mike Pence saw firsthand the extreme overcrowding migrants are often forced to endure at federal detention centers when he visited two Friday in Texas.

Agents wore face masks, and video showed detainees packed into their holding areas surrounded by chain-link fence, the concrete floors littered with silver thermal blankets. Reporters accompanying Pence described the facility as smelling “horrendous.”

Pence said afterward that what he saw was evidence of a “system that was overwhelmed.”
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/07/13/no-s...n-centers.html

I have trouble getting past your refusal weeks ago to join in a call for sexually responsible behavior leading to a greatly diminished out of wedlock birth rate. I don't see how your refusal there can correspond to the two commandments your referenced.

I have no idea what you're referring to. It's time men keep their flies zipped up.

jlisenbe · Jul 13, 2019, 11:22 AM

Pence said afterward that what he saw was evidence of a “system that was overwhelmed.”

So when do you suppose the democrat led congress will introduce emergency funding legislation do remedy the overwhelmed system?

I have no idea what you're referring to. It's time men keep their flies zipped up.

Fine. So will you agree that men need to keep their flies zipped up and women need to keep their pants on, or that their should be a general agreement to reserve sex for marriage?

talaniman · Jul 13, 2019, 11:41 AM

Originally Posted by jlisenbe

So when do you suppose the democrat led congress will introduce emergency funding legislation do remedy the overwhelmed system?

Fine. So will you agree that men need to keep their flies zipped up and women need to keep their pants on, or that their should be a general agreement to reserve sex for marriage?

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/house-p...ay-2019-06-25/

That was last month. The overcrowding is due in large part to this zero tolerance policy and his metering procedure to slow walk processing. I think we discussed his not sending the judges, interpreters and, legal counsel to speed up the process. He knew they were coming last year, and asked for no money then to prepare. His request for funds was well after the IG report, which he got in February. The press has been reporting the conditions for many months before Pence and repubs decided to see (SMELL) for themselves and still have not visited El Paso or Clint Tx. They went to McAllen Tx at another facility that's been reported on since December.

Wondergirl · Jul 13, 2019, 11:48 AM

Originally Posted by jlisenbe

So when do you suppose the democrat led congress will introduce emergency funding legislation do remedy the overwhelmed system?

There is no "democrat led congress".

Fine. So will you agree that men need to keep their flies zipped up and women need to keep their pants on, or that their should be a general agreement to reserve sex for marriage?

If men keep their flies zipped up, women can go about their business as usual. I never said anything about sex before marriage, was always taught and then did my own teaching that that's where it belongs.

jlisenbe · Jul 13, 2019, 11:55 AM

If men keep their flies zipped up, women can go about their business as usual. I never said anything about sex before marriage, was always taught and then did my own teaching that that's where it belongs.

So it's all the fault of the men? Even women who have multiple children from multiple fathers face, in your view, no responsibilities in the matter. And that's conservative Christian faith?

My call was to men and women both to exercise restraint and reserve sex for marriage. Just as it was several months ago, you will not commit to that. It would appear that your liberal orthodoxy will not allow you to assign responsibility to both genders. That is unfortunate.

talaniman · Jul 13, 2019, 12:09 PM

Pretty obvious it's going to take more than just calling for abstinence to bring about changes in human behavior. They've been calling for that in many areas not just in sex. Hasn't worked very well to mask the root causes of human pain which is at the heart of such behaviors that go against the common sense of those that suffer.

Wondergirl · Jul 13, 2019, 12:17 PM

Originally Posted by jlisenbe

So it's all the fault of the men? Even women who have multiple children from multiple fathers face, in your view, no responsibilities in the matter. And that's conservative Christian faith?

Not conservative faith. Those women were looking for love. Is that what men are looking for? Not all the time in MY experience!

My call was to men and women both to exercise restraint and reserve sex for marriage. Just as it was several months ago, you will not commit to that. It would appear that your liberal orthodoxy will not allow you to assign responsibility to both genders. That is unfortunate.

Okay. Women should stop looking to men for love (and giving up their purity during the process). Men should stop dangling love as a lure, meanwhile unzipping their pants.

jlisenbe · Jul 13, 2019, 12:35 PM

Women should stop looking to men for love (and giving up their purity during the process). Men should stop dangling love as a lure, meanwhile unzipping their pants.

I'm not as sure as you are of the involvement of the desire for love. Even for women, passion is a major element, yet that is a fair statement you made so far as it goes. But doesn't marriage basically solve the problem? Not all problems, to be sure, but at least the problem of children being born out of wedlock and the discipline of sex.

Wondergirl · Jul 13, 2019, 12:39 PM

Originally Posted by jlisenbe

I'm not as sure as you are of the involvement of the desire for love. Even for women, passion is a major element, yet that is a fair statement you made so far as it goes. But doesn't marriage basically solve the problem? Not all problems, to be sure, but at least the problem of children being born out of wedlock and the discipline of sex.

Among women, the need for love is MUCH more a driving force than passion.

Look back at post #32: WG said, "I never said anything about sex before marriage, was always taught and then did my own teaching that that's where it belongs."

jlisenbe · Jul 13, 2019, 12:44 PM

So we basically agree. Wonderful!

talaniman · Jul 13, 2019, 03:17 PM

Most people are not as pious as some of you want them to be for a variety of reasons. What are you intending to do, supervise them 24/7? Make a law to punish those that don't agree?

Wondergirl · Jul 13, 2019, 03:50 PM

Originally Posted by talaniman

Most people are not as pious as some of you want them to be for a variety of reasons. What are you intending to do, supervise them 24/7? Make a law to punish those that don't agree?

Exactly! And much of that goes back to how they were parented and what they were taught, how they were made to feel.