[Athos]

if you want me to take your moral position seriously,

It's not MY moral position, it's the moral position of anyone with an ounce of intelligence who pays attention to the events taking place in Clint and other places. Your gross inability to do so belies anything you say on any topic.

You're trapped in a self-imposed prison of Bibliolatry and Trump policies. You should welcome the criticisms you receive here. It gives you a chance to examine your beliefs.

Your own words have exposed you jls, time to shut up or rethink. Your choice.

[talaniman]

You must be an octopus, having to hold your nose while you cover your eyes and ears to the truth that the dufus drowns out. Only a dufus could blame others while he has the ball and is the one running with it the wrong way. While Obama and the ones before him were far from perfect this guy has found and keeps finding new lows to slink to.

And you cheer him for it. My friend you are playing for the wrong team, and stubbornly defend a cruel, selfish, liar and cheater and bully who abuses the helpless, no matter the evidence right before your face.

Worse case of TDS I have ever seen! It's an epidemic I tell ya! You far righties should be quarantined.

[jlisenbe]

Wondergirl, you have an article with very little direct evidence. A dozen children have the flu. One infant was poorly cared for. Some children allege they were poorly fed. You have nothing about children being raped or physically abused.

I'm sure there have been some unfortunate incidents, and those should be corrected, but you have no evidence that the great majority of people have not been adequately cared for. Considering that this situation has come about fairly suddenly, and that the Obama admin seems to have done but very little to provide for facilities, then it was kind of foreseeable that this might happen. I'm all for having humane conditions, but I'm not convinced that that is not the case in most of the facilities.

It's not MY moral position, it's the moral position of anyone with an ounce of intelligence who pays attention to the events taking place in Clint and other places. Your gross inability to do so belies anything you say on any topic.

OK. It's not your position, so I don't have to pay any attention to it. Thanks!

You're trapped in a self-imposed prison of Bibliolatry and Trump policies. You should welcome the criticisms you receive here. It gives you a chance to examine your beliefs.

I do receive all opportunities to examine my beliefs.

Your own words have exposed you jls, time to shut up or rethink. Your choice.

Sez you, but like I have said, when you can tell me what you are personally doing to help, other than making offensive remarks on a message board, and when you can point out how you were critical of Obama for his lack of attention to this problem, then that moral position you claim you don't hold might stop ringing hollow.

You might try taking your own advice about examining beliefs.

[Wondergirl]

Wondergirl, you have an article with very little direct evidence.

You haven't been watching tv and hearing the reports of medical people and others who've been allowed to see what's going on? Oh, yeah. Fox whitewashes.

Would you allow your own small children to visit there for a few days and share the frozen chicken nuggets and tacos, the lice and germs, and get smeared with poop and pee?

https://www.stltoday.com/news/nation...29b5416bc.html

https://www.theroot.com/migrant-chil...fte-1835813375

[jlisenbe]

You haven't been watching tv and hearing the reports of medical people and others who've been allowed to see what's going on? Oh, yeah. Fox whitewashes.

I don't watch any of the evening news shows. I asked you for your evidence. It was minimal. If you want to make an accusation, then be prepared to back it up. The two links you provided were just a rehash of the El Paso story you had already linked. It did note that some of the children had not had a shower for several days. Do you not realize that there are virtually no showers in the rural areas of Central America, or that many homeless men have no access to showers? That is what I was referring to when I said that the great majority of them might very well have it better here than where they came from, or that they have it better than many of our homeless people who are American citizens.

Would you allow your own small children to visit there for a few days and share the frozen chicken nuggets and tacos, the lice and germs, and get smeared with poop and pee?

I would not take my small children somewhere where I have not been invited and where I have no idea of how we would be taken care of. Would you??

[Wondergirl]

I would not take my small children somewhere where I have not been invited and where I have no idea of how we would be taken care of. Would you??

Great answer! Exactly what I expected!

If the part of Chicago where I live was overtaken by drug dealers, gangs, robbers, rapists, general fear that I can't even leave my house, yes, I would go (and take my children) to what I hoped and had been told was a safe place. Apparently, the refugees were told wrong. The US isn't a safe place.

[jlisenbe]

If the part of Chicago where I live was overtaken by drug dealers, gangs, robbers, rapists, general fear that I can't even leave my house, yes, I would go (and take my children) to what I hoped and had been told was a safe place. Apparently, the refugees were told wrong. The US isn't a safe place.

I think the refugees are largely safe. You have produced no evidence of widespread conditions of people not being safe. Now are they being fed and housed in an acceptable fashion? I don't know, and I don't think you do either, but I've seen no evidence that there are widespread problems with this. It is sad that children are temporarily separated from parents, but I'm not sure what to do about that, and it does not last more than twenty days, so I just don't know what to say about it. I suspect those people are accustomed to much tougher conditions than you realize. I can tell you some stories just from my own time in Guatemala that would illustrate that.

You did raise a good point about Chicago. Parts of that city HAVE been taken over by drug dealers and gangs and are unsafe, and people are affected by the tens of thousands, and yet you have not mentioned that. Why is it that you people in Chicago do not make your own city safe? Why is it that liberals living in major U.S. cities are so quick to jump on the situation at the border, and yet so silent about the horrendous conditions which exist practically in their own backyards? Can you answer that question for me? Why is that?

It's late and I'm old, so it's lights out for me. Mañana.

[paraclete]

It's late and I'm old, so it's lights out for me. Mañana

.

It shows

[Wondergirl]

It's late and I'm old, so it's lights out for me. Mañana.

I'm older than you and will be up for a few more hours.

I have been doing what I can to improve Chicago and suburbs. Rome wasn't build in a day.

[jlisenbe]

I have been doing what I can to improve Chicago and suburbs. Rome wasn't build in a day.

Not easy, is it? And that is kind of my whole point. Liberal democrat governments have utterly failed in their efforts to make inner city areas safe and productive. In Baltimore, for instance, 13 of the 39 high schools could not produce a single student who scored proficient on the state's mathematics exam. So maybe it's time for liberals to cut the government a little slack on the border and give it some time to get the problem fixed instead of setting your hair on fire and running out of the house screaming bloody murder. Also not a good idea to accuse detention guards of rape and assault without some really good supporting evidence. A little moderation would be in order from the people who can't get the problems in their own backyards fixed. You've had decades and failed, and your plea is, "Rome wasn't built in a day." Well, it's been a far, far shorter period of time on the border.

Not intending to sound impatient, but I'm still waiting for your answer to this question. "Why is it that liberals living in major U.S. cities are so quick to jump on the situation at the border, and yet so silent about the horrendous conditions which exist practically in their own backyards? Can you answer that question for me?"

[talaniman]

Chicago has a more dynamic economy than the whole state of Mississippi despite the challenges, so be careful who you call a failure.

[jlisenbe]

Chicago has a more dynamic economy than the whole state of Mississippi despite the challenges, so be careful who you call a failure.

You have completely and thoroughly missed the point. You have also dodged the question.

In the meantime, Chicago has more murders in a year than the lowest fifteen states combined.

If you want to suggest that Mississippi has failed in a number of important ways, I would agree with you.

[talaniman]

As I have always reminded Clete, more people, more poverty. It's a growing thing, that needs to be solved. The longer it festers, the harder the solution, and the more problems it brings.

Just do the math, start with population per square mile and you will understand the challenge better.

[jlisenbe]

As I have always reminded Clete, more people, more poverty. It's a growing thing, that needs to be solved. The longer it festers, the harder the solution, and the more problems it brings.

Poverty of soul is the great enemy. If economic poverty causes crimes, then how can you explain how the crime rate fell during the Great Depression?

[paraclete]

Poverty of soul is the great enemy. If economic poverty causes crimes, then how can you explain how the crime rate fell during the Great Depression?

Noone but the criminals had any money

[talaniman]

What Clete said. It is no coincidence that there was and has always been two economies in America. One for the haves, and one for the have NOTS. LOL, guess how the dufus got to be one of the haves?

[jlisenbe]

Noone but the criminals had any money

What Clete said. It is no coincidence that there was and has always been two economies in America. One for the haves, and one for the have NOTS. LOL, guess how the dufus got to be one of the haves?

So I'll ask it again. If poverty causes crime, then why did the crime rates FALL during the Great Depression? And please don't tell me you have to have money to commit a crime. That's a ridiculous idea.

[talaniman]

https://www.history.com/topics/great...eat-depression

New Deal programs were likely a major factor in declining crime rates, as was the end of Prohibition and a slowdown of immigration and migration of people from rural America to northern cities, all of which reduced urban crime rates. Even when the U.S. economy stalled again in 1937-38, homicide rates kept falling, reaching 6.4 per 100,000 by the end of the decade.

https://www.city-journal.org/html/cr...ion-13399.html

[jlisenbe]

All excuses aside, you cannot escape the fact that poverty increased dramatically during the GP. Now you say that poverty causes crime, but crime decreased during that time, so even if you throw in some government programs, most of which involved work and not sit around and do nothing programs, and all of which still left people in a hard financial situation, how do you account for that decrease in crime? I thought increased poverty would result in increased crime?

I wonder if it could have been the fact that those people were poor in money but not afflicted with poverty of soul, and not given to the idea, as many are today, that my lack justifies me taking from others, and that the culture of the time did not include people running around making excuses for criminal behavior.

Now to be fair, I understand that poverty adds stress to lives, and people might do things when poor that they would not have done outside of poverty, but it is not automatic. The great question is, how do people get into, or out of, poverty? I contend that, in most cases, it starts on the inside. A woman who decides to have three children outside of marriage runs a great risk of poverty. A person who drops out of school in the 11th grade because "it's too dull" is in trouble. People who don't like the concept of work are not in a good position.

[Wondergirl]

"Why is it that liberals living in major U.S. cities are so quick to jump on the situation at the border, and yet so silent about the horrendous conditions which exist practically in their own backyards? Can you answer that question for me?"

I'm working to help both.