[paraclete]

The 'Trumps of this world' have been running this world for a long time. I understand, it was suppose to be Hillary's turn.

There is no line for having a turn otherwise Joe wouldn't want to try again

[tomder55]

Yesterday the House along party lines voted to repeal the 2001 Authorization for Use of Military Force (AUMF ) that has been used by Presidents Bush ,the emperor ,and Trump to attack targets as long as they were linked to terrorism . Now we hear that Iran shot down a US Navy MQ-4C Drone (cost $120 million) over international waters in the Straits of Hormuz (Iran claims it was in Iranian air space ,but that is easily verifiable ) . This now gives the President the authority to attack Iranian military targets without the cover of AUMF . The question is ;why does Iran want to go to war with the US ? This drone is the 2nd one they've targeted in a week . Previously they attacked a drone near the tanker they attacked .

[tomder55]

Contrary to claims Trump is prodding Iran into war, the president and his admin have responded to escalating Iranian provocations with restraint bordering on weakness. I think that his comments today that the attack could be from some military officer acting outside of policy from Tehran may have prevented the markets from going crazy.

[Athos]

we hear that Iran shot down a US Navy MQ-4C Drone (cost $120 million) over international waters in the Straits of Hormuz (Iran claims it was in Iranian air space ,but that is easily verifiable )

How is it easily verifiable?

After the Pentagon papers, Gulf of Tonkin, Iraq WMDs, and others, the current rush to war in Iran (if that's what it is), I have a hard time believing the US Gov't when it flexes its military muscles. This is a great shame and seems to be bipartisan. The wrong guys have their finger on the trigger and Trump is by far the worst but he seems to be the cool head in the room if the news reports are accurate. Trump as a war leader is terrifying.

[talaniman]

Pick your potentate, dufus took the Saudis. Neither is worth a crap, and Vlad likes them both. You think the 12ers will talk to the dufus about anything? It's a mess that's bound to get messier. Or you could go with door 3...the UFO's.

[tomder55]

How is it easily verifiable?

multiple nations have gps .

After the Pentagon papers, Gulf of Tonkin, Iraq WMDs, and others, the current rush to war in Iran (if that's what it is), I have a hard time believing the US Gov't when it flexes its military muscles.

and yet you were so willing to believe the intel agency when it said that Trump was colluding .

You think the 12ers will talk to the dufus about anything?

nope ,they play American leaders who think they can be negotiated with . If it were up to me there would already be a big crater where the SAM was launched .

[Athos]

Pick your potentate, dufus took the Saudis. Neither is worth a crap, and Vlad likes them both. You think the 12ers will talk to the dufus about anything? It's a mess that's bound to get messier. Or you could go with door 3...the UFO's.

Translate, please.

[waltero]

Trump as a war leader is terrifying.

I don't know, I hear he plays a mean game of RISK...terrifying for the other side?

[Athos]

multiple nations have gps .

This drone is reported to have been lost by its control so the GPS would not work to locate it. I assume we'll know shortly, but maybe not.

and yet you were so willing to believe the intel agency when it said that Trump was colluding.

Generally, the intel agencies get it right, but not always. You have to take many factors into account. Mueller's report, for example, clearly showed obstruction of justice by Trump. And we all know the reasons behind not charging Trump since the DOJ regards him as a Divine Right King.

[tomder55]

the 12ers ? They are the cult that runs Iran. They think the 12th Iman will return from the well he fell into and will restore greatness in Islam. I call followers of the 12th Madhi, the Mahdi Hatters


https://www.thoughtco.com/who-is-the-12th-imam-3555177

Tal believes that there is a great conflict between Shia and Sunni and Iran and Saudi Arabia are the dominant nations of the 2 sects . He is not wrong. Before the Ayatolah asshola took over Iran ,the US built it's ME policy on the two pillars of balanced relations between the 2 nations .That ended when the Iran mullahs declared war on the US in 1979(a war they have not quit ). So the US threw it's support to the Saudi's . The emperor tried to change the equation by doing a big US surrender . His calculation was that if Iran became a regional hegemon then there would be no needs for us to be there . He miscalculated . Iran attacked us with SAMS paid for in US dollars .

This drone is reported to have been lost by its control

source ? I have not seen that report

[Athos]

the 12ers ? They are the cult that runs Iran. They think the 12th Iman will return from the well he fell into and will restore greatness in Islam. I call followers of the 12th Madhi, the Mahdi Hatters

Thank you. Helpful info.


https://www.thoughtco.com/who-is-the-12th-imam-3555177

Tal believes that there is a great conflict between Shia and Sunni and Iran and Saudi Arabia are the dominant nations of the 2 sects . He is not wrong. Before the Ayatolah asshola took over Iran ,the US built it's ME policy on the two pillars of balanced relations between the 2 nations .That ended when the Iran mullahs declared war on the US in 1979(a war they have not quit ). So the US threw it's support to the Saudi's . The emperor tried to change the equation by doing a big US surrender . His calculation was that if Iran became a regional hegemon then there would be no needs for us to be there . He miscalculated . Iran attacked us with SAMS paid for in US dollars .

Thank you again. Good history lesson. I knew maybe one-third to one-half of this but not all of it. You and Tal are way ahead of me.

However, your conclusion about Obama's diplomatic efforts seem wrong. His trying to equalize the situation must have seemed worth a try. Iranian hegemony still seems to be the only thing to balance the Trump/Saudi gang. I think the current mess could have been avoided if Trump had not broken the agreement with Iran.

source ? I have not seen that report

CNN's Barbara Starr reported from the Pentagon that her sources there told her the drone was lost as it traversed the western border of Afghanistan apparently on a trajectory toward Iran. Yet to be confirmed.

[Athos]

CNN's Barbara Starr reported from the Pentagon that her sources there told her the drone was lost as it traversed the western border of Afghanistan apparently on a trajectory toward Iran. Yet to be confirmed.

After intensely searching all over the internet for the Starr CNN report, it's nowhere to be found. I know for a fact I heard and saw her saying this on the noon CNN news show.

After all the internet searching, I think this is what happened. In 2011, a similar incident occurred re a US drone and Iran. Reports for that event reveal Starr saying exactly what I claimed she said today. I think CNN ran that old clip as similar to today's drone event, but I came in in the middle and CNN then went to commercial after running the old clip. I mistakenly assumed it was current.

My apologies to all.

[talaniman]

It never works out well when two hardliners square off, and since scuttling the nuclear deal and tightening the noose around Iran fireworks are inevitable at some point after throwing the "moderates under the bus. The Iranians aren't the real problem, it's that radical Revolutionary Guard with Vlad behind them that's the real problem. Yes and the dufus should know them rather well also,

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-polit...ump-tower-baku

[tomder55]

I was thinking the western border of Iran is quite a distance from the Gulf of Hormuz. It is possible that it strayed ;but the distance being disputed is about 17 miles .

[talaniman]

17 miles is nothing for an drone that tops 300MPH easily when cruising.

[paraclete]

It would be easier if Trump could do some talking instead of postering. This is a great opportunity for reelection, he will be seen as a war president. If only the world wasn't hostage to US internal politics, but not a statesman in sight

[talaniman]

He just gave the military the green light for strikes on Iran but called it off at the last minute. I'm no fan of Iran especially the Revolutionary Guard, but attacking without being attacked crosses a line for me even if he was faking.

[Athos]

The Iranians gave the GPS coordinates showing the drone was within the nautical miles allowed for Iranian territory. The Americans gave different GPS coordinates showing the drone shot down 21 miles off the Iranian coast in international waters. The disputed difference is 9 miles.

Can additional GPS coordinates be given by other countries? Is there an absolute certainty when it comes to GPS coordinates?

[paraclete]

We are playing brinkmanship again, just because you have abig stick doesn't mean someoneelse can't fight

[tomder55]

attacking without being attacked

I guess shooting missiles at one of our military assets doesn't count as an attack.