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talaniman · Jun 9, 2019, 07:52 PM

Originally Posted by waltero

And???

We built this society to be as it is. didn’t we?

I think we were hoping for better but humans can always screw things up. Hope we keep at it though and do better, don't you? Now duck whilst I chunk some rocks at my friend JL,

Who first put the troops into Niger? If you guessed Mr. Obama, you guessed right. So are you criticizing him for putting those troops into Niger?

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/us-t...ry?id=50559788

Unlike you, I'm not blaming the dufus for casualties of war or his stupid behavior afterward, it speaks for itself but if you cannot balance that I really can only pray for you. You need all you can get. We all do, so return the favor LIBERALLY.

jlisenbe · Jun 9, 2019, 08:22 PM

I don't think it originated with Trump. I don't think the Navy is in the habit of just ignoring a direct order from the Commander in Chief. That just doesn't pass the smell test.

Tal, we can pray for each other. Great idea and I'm in.

Unlike you, I'm not blaming the dufus for casualties of war or his stupid behavior afterward,

I've blamed Trump??? I wasn't aware I had done so.

talaniman · Jun 10, 2019, 05:50 AM

That was my point. You are so stuck on one tragic event, and ignoring the many others NOW, and that certainly defies my logic. To you, the dufus has and cannot do anything that gives you pause and that's particularly troubling considering your social stances on behavior by others, but I fully understand tribal hyper partisanship, and the frustrations we all are going through.

No need to dismiss us because we disagree. You of all people, HC and Obama )Liberals?) hating as you are, should understand how any dem would feel at the antics of this lying, cheating, cruel egomaniac you fall behind.

I guess we all have our agendas, nothing new there, but just saying, the rocks you throw comes back to you so DUCK! Nothing personal 8)

Athos · Jun 10, 2019, 08:10 AM

Originally Posted by jlisenbe

I don't think it originated with Trump. I don't think the Navy is in the habit of just ignoring a direct order from the Commander in Chief. That just doesn't pass the smell test.

You were probably never in the military. Am I right? You don't understand the military mind-set. No one in the military is required to obey an unlawful order even if it originates with the Commander-in-Chief. In fact, they have an affirmative duty to disobey.

You need a better smeller.

jlisenbe · Jun 10, 2019, 08:56 AM

That was my point. You are so stuck on one tragic event, and ignoring the many others NOW, and that certainly defies my logic. To you, the dufus has and cannot do anything that gives you pause and that's particularly troubling considering your social stances on behavior by others,

If we can agree that both Obama and Trump have committed egregious acts, then that is fine. It is only when a person states that she would have dumped Obama for doing what Trump did when Obama did WORSE than Trump that I find it objectionable.

Politics.

. No one in the military is required to obey an unlawful order even if it originates with the Commander-in-Chief. In fact, they have an affirmative duty to disobey.

An order being stupid is not the same as an order being unlawful. If Trump had given the order, it would have been obeyed. No one in the military wants to be the guy who disobeyed the pres.

Athos · Jun 10, 2019, 12:43 PM

Originally Posted by jlisenbe

An order being stupid is not the same as an order being unlawful. If Trump had given the order, it would have been obeyed.

You still don't get it. This order was stupid AND unlawful.

No one in the military wants to be the guy who disobeyed the pres.

Two admirals disagree with you. When they heard the White House gave the order, who do you think they thought it came from? Donald Duck?

jlisenbe · Jun 10, 2019, 01:13 PM

You still don't get it. This order was stupid AND unlawful.

Unlawful in what way? I haven't read a lot on this but I haven't seen anyone suggest the order was unlawful. Also have seen no real evidence that it originated with Trump.

Two admirals disagree with you. When they heard the White House gave the order, who do you think they thought it came from? Donald Duck?

I imagine they thought it came from the person who signed the request/order. These things don't just float around in an anonymous manner. I'm pretty sure Donald Duck did not sign the order.

What two admirals are you referring to?

Athos · Jun 10, 2019, 02:45 PM

Originally Posted by jlisenbe

Unlawful in what way? I haven't read a lot on this but I haven't seen anyone suggest the order was unlawful.

An order to use a United States Warship for political purposes against a political opponent is unlawful.

Also have seen no real evidence that it originated with Trump.

It came from the WHITE HOUSE! Who do you think is in charge of the WH and would approve of such an order?

I imagine they thought it came from the person who signed the request/order. These things don't just float around in an anonymous manner.

FINALLY, you're beginning to understand. Of course they don't float around anonymously. No matter who signs it, Trump approves it. Third-level staffers don't give orders to the US Navy.

I'm pretty sure Donald Duck did not sign the order.

Good Grief !!

What two admirals are you referring to?

Look them up.

jlisenbe · Jun 10, 2019, 03:43 PM

An order to use a United States Warship for political purposes against a political opponent is unlawful.

You are exaggerating on an enormously high level, also known as taking a wild guess

It came from the WHITE HOUSE! Who do you think is in charge of the WH and would approve of such an order?

If you think Trump approves every order that proceeds out of the White House, then you are really mistaken. It doesn't work that way.

In telling me to look up the names of the admirals, I suspect you are admitting you don't have the slightest idea who they are.

Wondergirl · Jun 10, 2019, 04:50 PM

Originally Posted by jlisenbe

In telling me to look up the names of the admirals, I suspect you are admitting you don't have the slightest idea who they are.

I googled and found their names in less than five minutes (that long because I had to adjust my keywords).
* * * * * * * * * *
Athos: It came from the WHITE HOUSE! Who do you think is in charge of the WH and would approve of such an order?

JL: If you think Trump approves every order that proceeds out of the White House, then you are really mistaken. It doesn't work that way.

Athos said, "such an order".
JL said, "every order".

Methinks JL misquoted Athos, changing the wording and meaning.

jlisenbe · Jun 10, 2019, 06:24 PM

Methinks JL misquoted Athos, changing the wording and meaning.

Splitting hairs, but I will admit you have a valid if minuscule point.

I googled and found their names in less than five minutes

Fine. Who were they? Who were the two admirals who knowing, as Athos said, the order came from the pres, just decided to ignore it. Who were they?

Wondergirl · Jun 10, 2019, 06:49 PM

Originally Posted by jlisenbe

Splitting hairs, but I will admit you have a valid if minuscule point.

You just can't bring yourself to do it, can you.

Fine. Who were they? Who were the two admirals who knowing, as Athos said, the order came from the pres, just decided to ignore it. Who were they?

I'm not going to do your homework for you!

jlisenbe · Jun 10, 2019, 07:59 PM

I'm not going to do your homework for you!

Code for, "I don't know." Well, don't feel too badly. I don't think anyone else knows either. But if you can find where an admiral publicly stated he defied an order from the President of the United States (not the "White House"), I would surely like to see it.

Wondergirl · Jun 10, 2019, 08:50 PM

Originally Posted by jlisenbe

Code for, "I don't know." Well, don't feel too badly. I don't think anyone else knows either. But if you can find where an admiral publicly stated he defied an order from the President of the United States (not the "White House"), I would surely like to see it.

As my grandfather would say, "You're full of applesauce." Of course I know! I'm a librarian and looked it up. You think you're so tricky with your psychology. (Btw, no one "feels badly"; it's "feels bad.")

jlisenbe · Jun 11, 2019, 12:35 AM

As my grandfather would say, "You're full of applesauce." Of course I know! I'm a librarian and looked it up. You think you're so tricky with your psychology. (Btw, no one "feels badly"; it's "feels bad.")

First of all, I really like applesauce. Secondly, I can tell you know by your refusal to post the names.

Psychology? Nah. I don't care about this little game. If you know, then post it. If not, then don't. I really don't care if the story is true or not. I doubt Trump gave the order, but if he did, then it was just an exercise in stupidity. No one died, and no money was wasted. Compared to the IRS scandal or the Veteran's scandal, it is less than nothing. I don't like Trump and never have. He's the worst kind of narcissist, but watching the Trump haters has become a hobby. Those like you who loved Obama after all the scandals he had in office, but then want to practically fall over in a dead faint over the supposed covering of a ship's name mystify me. Truth is, his greatest sin was beating the person that the liberal world thought had the election in the bag. You just can't get over it, and I guess I can understand that to some point. I'm tempted to say it all comes down to politics, but there is a current of hatred in much of the anti-Trump dialogue that is really ugly. And while that was also true with Obama, the passion of the "we hate Trump" crowd is breathtaking.

Evasiveness does not serve you well.

If you're referring to Admiral Brown, he did not claim to have ignored a command from the pres.

Athos · Jun 11, 2019, 12:13 PM

Originally Posted by jlisenbe

Splitting hairs, but I will admit you have a valid if minuscule point.

Well, you're half right.

Valid? Indeed! Miniscule? Not hardly!

It is, in fact, a major point, and perfectly germane to the discussion.

jlisenbe · Jun 11, 2019, 12:50 PM

I still think it's splitting hairs to some degree, but perhaps I missed your meaning. I would admit it had more significance than I initially thought, but by no means shows that the order originated with Trump. That's just opinion.

I'm still waiting to hear the name of the admiral who said he disobeyed an order from Trump.

talaniman · Jun 11, 2019, 01:59 PM

Don't their actions speak louder than their words?

jlisenbe · Jun 11, 2019, 03:45 PM

Don't their actions speak louder than their words?

Evidently they speak louder than even their names!

waltero · Jun 11, 2019, 06:14 PM

What two admirals are you referring to?

I think one of them was Colonel T. Wisenheimer.

I only wish Trump Had Ordered it, that would have been Hilarious.
Be great if Trump were to order the Ship to be painted Pink with purple dots.
Not much Difference having the United states military put on UN uniforms.

"Can You Believe This? It's True!"

Trump is The Commander and Chief! Nyuk Nyuk Nyuk...Eat it Suckers!

Must be Trump-Man: Into the Trump-Verse.

Yes it is. Where do you think you are? Welcome to Trump-Verse...A new reality (what else could it be) for all who experienced that stunning victory. You are welcome, for saving you from that Horrid Hillary.