[jlisenbe]

Ah, your Christian love DOES have limits! (P.S. Those aren't liberal points of view; they're human situations that need unconditional love.)

And your Christian faith seems to have no grounding in God's will. Kill babies with abortion? Fine. Two men get married. No problem. Your moral values seem to be more shaped by the values of the democrat party than by the Bible.

BTW, the love of God is limitless in the sense that He offers mercy to everyone, but not in the sense that He accepts and approves of all our actions. Jesus Himself allowed people to walk away and reject Him.

And yeah, they are liberal points of view. You will not find gay marriage, abortion, or the federal welfare state in the Bible.

[Wondergirl]

And your Christian faith seems to have no grounding in God's will. Kill babies with abortion? Fine. Two men get married. No problem. Your moral values seem to be more shaped by the values of the democrat party than by the Bible.

I didn't say we must agree with them. I said people in those situations need our unconditional love.

BTW, the love of God is limitless in the sense that He offers mercy to everyone, but not in the sense that He accepts and approves of all our actions. Jesus Himself allowed people to walk away and reject Him.

They haven't rejected Him. Christians have rejected them.

And yeah, they are liberal points of view. You will not find gay marriage, abortion, or the federal welfare state in the Bible.

You'd better read your Bible a bit more carefully and be sure to interpret correctly what you read.

[jlisenbe]

I didn't say we must agree with them. I said people in those situations need our unconditional love.

You seem to be offering unconditional acceptance of behavior. That is not Biblical and it is not love. To refuse to oppose gay marriage and abortion is not a loving act at all. It is just going along to get along, and giving your liberal views an outlet.

They haven't rejected Him. Christians have rejected them.

Just a general statement with no meaning. "They", "Christians", and "them" are large groups that you can't possibly be that familiar with. I, for instance, belong in the "Christians" group, but I have not rejected anyone that I know of.

You'd better read your Bible a bit more carefully and be sure to interpret correctly what you read.

I'm open to you showing me gay marriage, abortion, and the federal welfare state in the Bible.

[Wondergirl]

You seem to be offering unconditional acceptance of behavior. That is not Biblical and it is not love. To refuse to oppose gay marriage and abortion is not a loving act at all. It is just going along to get along, and giving your liberal views an outlet.

You so want me to be "liberal" and are painting me with that brush.

Unconditional love is not unconditional acceptance.

Just a general statement with no meaning. "They", "Christians", and "them" are large groups that you can't possibly be that familiar with. I, for instance, belong in the "Christians" group, but I have not rejected anyone that I know of.

I was responding to 'Clete and using pronouns whose antecedents were the nouns he used.

I'm open to you showing me gay marriage, abortion, and the federal welfare state in the Bible.

Have you read it yet?

[Athos]

Ah, your Christian love DOES have limits! (P.S. Those aren't liberal points of view; they're human situations that need unconditional love.)

Well said!

[jlisenbe]

Have you read it yet?

Many times.

I would hope you would stop being evasive. If you can find those practices being approved in the Bible, then post it. Otherwise, you should stop supporting them. You don't do people favors by doing so. It's as bad as saying you don't support slavery, but wouldn't want to seem to be unloving by opposing it.

All love has limits.

[paraclete]

I was responding to 'Clete and using pronouns whose antecedents were the nouns he used.

Your response was a bit obscure, I couldn't see what I had said in it. The liberals demand acceptance of whatever people want to do because we Christians are required to be different. I live, I breathe, I have an opinion which is informed by God's Word. My answer to them you will be forgiven if you repent, in the meantime, I am not required to agree with them

[jlisenbe]

I have an opinion which is informed by God's Word. My answer to them you will be forgiven if you repent, in the meantime, I am not required to agree with them

Good response. I would only add that I will help a person if I can in some way that does not add to their disobedience of God. In dealing with addicts, for instance, you learn quickly that most of them are good deceivers and you cannot assist them in their addiction. It can lead to some tough decisions.

[Wondergirl]

Many times.

I would hope you would stop being evasive. If you can find those practices being approved in the Bible, then post it. Otherwise, you should stop supporting them. You don't do people favors by doing so. It's as bad as saying you don't support slavery, but wouldn't want to seem to be unloving by opposing it.

All love has limits.

I haven't supported "those practices" nor have I been evasive. I said they need unconditional love. For instance, the Bible writers didn't know about fetuses being swamped in hormone baths that changed how their brain interpreted their sexuality.

Jesus' love doesn't have limits.

[jlisenbe]

I haven't supported "those practices"

That's what you like to claim, but you don't oppose them. You like to live in the middle, not against, but not in favor of. At some point you need to state your position.

nor have I been evasive.

Yes, you are. I ask you to give Biblical support for gay marriage or abortion, and your reply is to tell me to read my Bible. It's basically a non-response in meaning.

I said they need unconditional love. For instance, the Bible writers didn't know about fetuses being swamped in hormone baths that changed how their brain interpreted their sexuality.

Even if your answer was accurate, and it largely is not, how would that effect our discussion? You still have not made reference to any scripture showing an acceptance of gay marriage or abortion.

Jesus' love doesn't have limits.

Oh it most certainly did. When the rich young ruler approached Jesus, He told the man what he needed to do to enter the Kingdom of God. It specifically says that Jesus loved the man, but the ruler chose to do otherwise. Jesus did not pursue him and try to change his mind, and on the day of judgement, his love will be shown to have a limit. Jesus loved everyone, but He did not accept everyone, nor did He allow anyone and everyone to follow Him. If you think He did, then you need to read your Bible.

[Wondergirl]

That's what you like to claim, but you don't oppose them. You like to live in the middle, not against, but not in favor of. At some point you need to state your position.

I would eat with them as Jesus would and tell them about His love for them.

Yes, you are. I ask you to give Biblical support for gay marriage or abortion, and your reply is to tell me to read my Bible. It's basically a non-response in meaning.

Tell me where in the Bible it says anything at all about gay marriage and abortion.

A completely senseless, non-scientific answer.

Actually, it IS scientific.

Oh it most certainly did. When the rich young ruler approached Jesus, He told the man what he needed to do to enter the Kingdom of God. It specifically says that Jesus loved the man, but the ruler chose to do otherwise. Jesus did not pursue him and try to change his mind, and on the day of judgement, his love will be shown to have a limit. Jesus loved everyone, but He did not accept everyone. If you think He did, then you need to read your Bible.

Have you approached anyone to tell them what they must do to enter God's kingdom? Hmmmm, I wonder what you'd say....

[jlisenbe]

I would eat with them as did Jesus would and tell them about His love for them.

Again, a non-response. What is your position about the morality of gm or abortion?

Have you approached anyone to tell them what they must do to enter God's kingdom? Hmmmm, I wonder what you'd say....

I would tell them to repent and believe in Jesus Christ. Have done so many times. Holds true whether you are a prostitute or the bank president.

What do you tell them?

Tell me where in the Bible it says anything at all about gay marriage and abortion.

Funny how your response is always evasive. You have no support, so you ask me give support. I'm happy to do it, but just another example of your non-responses.

For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.

When Elizabeth heard Mary's greeting, the baby leaped in her womb, and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit.

“Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, and before you were born I consecrated you; I appointed you a prophet to the nations.”

[Wondergirl]

Again, a non-response. What is your position about the morality of gm or abortion?

I would tell them to repent and believe in Jesus Christ. Have done so many times. Holds true whether you are a prostitute or the bank president.

What do you tell them?

I first get to know them and start to become a friend.

Funny how your response is always evasive.

Huh? I told you what I believe and think.

You have no support, so you ask me give support. I'm happy to do it, but just another example of your non-responses.

Non response. No, I don't agree with you. Guess that's a non response.

For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.

Gay couples can love each other and be as one flesh.

When Elizabeth heard Mary's greeting, the baby leaped in her womb, and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit.

“Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, and before you were born I consecrated you; I appointed you a prophet to the nations.”

The LORD God formed the man from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living soul (nephesh - “an animated, breathing, conscious, and living being).”

[jlisenbe]

Gay couples can love each other and be as one flesh.

So the truth comes out. You have no support for this other than your own opinion. At least you finally came out with something concrete. You did not reach this conclusion by reading the Bible. It is the result of being influenced by your liberal views. Sad.

So if someone asks you what he/she must do to enter the Kingdom of God, your answer is to become their friend and get to know them? Is that how, in your mind, a person enters the Kingdom of God? Jesus did not take that approach with the ruler. He simply told him the truth. There is really a place for that. He did it frequently.

[Wondergirl]

So the truth comes out. You have no support for this other than your own opinion. At least you finally came out with something concrete. You did not reach this conclusion by reading the Bible. It is the result of being influenced by your liberal views. Sad.

There is no Biblical support for your belief about gays. I'm guessing St. Paul may have been gay.

So if someone asks you what he/she must do to enter the Kingdom of God, your answer is to become their friend and get to know them? Is that how, in your mind, a person enters the Kingdom of God? Jesus did not take that approach with the ruler. He simply told him the truth. There is really a place for that. He did it frequently.

That wasn't what you asked me. You asked what I would do. Shouting Bible verses in their face certainly wouldn't get me very far.

[jlisenbe]

There is no Biblical support for your belief about gays. I'm guessing St. Paul may have been gay.

There is not Biblical support other than the many verses which show homosexual activity to be a sin? And Paul was gay? Congratulations for losing all credibility as a student of the Bible. There is not a single scripture to back up your ideas about gay marriage. None.

That wasn't what you asked me. You asked what I would do. Shouting Bible verses in their face certainly wouldn't get me very far.

Uhm...actually, you started the questioning when you asked, "Have you approached anyone to tell them what they must do to enter God's kingdom? Hmmmm, I wonder what you'd say...." So I'm still wondering what you would say. No one has suggested shouting. No one has even suggested Bible verses. You are making things up as you go.

I think we have arrived at the truth. You care nothing for the Bible. Your belief is that God loving everyone makes whatever a person wants to do OK with God. When the Bible contradicts that, then you just ignore it. So here we are. I don't care about your opinion or my opinion. I care about God's opinion. I would encourage you to do the same.

[Wondergirl]

There is not Biblical support other than the many verses which show homosexual activity to be a sin? And Paul was gay? Congratulations for losing all credibility as a student of the Bible. There is not a single scripture to back up your ideas about gay marriage. None.

As I said, there are no verses about homosexuality being a sin. Jesus never mentioned it either. And why else would Paul have suffered and endured so many beatings and abuse? Because he had a skin disease???? Give me a break!

Here's an article for you to chew on:
https://johnpavlovitz.com/2018/12/01...hn%20Pavlovitz

[waltero]

As I said, there are no verses about homosexuality being a sin. Jesus never mentioned it either. And why else would Paul have suffered and endured so many beatings and abuse? Because he had a skin disease???? Give me a break!

Wow!
2 Timothy 4:3-4 For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions, and will turn away from listening to the truth and wander off into myths.

Beware When Bad Becomes Good, And Good Becomes Bad.

[Wondergirl]

Wow!

Please post one.

[waltero]

Please post one.

How so? A person has to die to self first.

2 Timothy 4:3-4 For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions, and will ""turn away from listening to the truth"" and wander off into myths.

You already have your Truth/myths.

'You' are a good person, 'you' are helping people, 'you' have a loving understanding of things...it's all "you."

It has nothing to do with what 'you' or I believe or understand. I no longer exists, it's Christ Jesus in me...all understanding, all love all life comes from Jesus, Jesus (the Bible) is the living word in the flesh.

Isaiah 5:20 20Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who put darkness for light and light for darkness, who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter.