[tomder55]

What part of the preamble was misquoted ?

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

Regarding limited government ;The measure is that the Constitution allows for what the government can do ;or in the case of some amendments what it cannot do . Anything else the goverment does is outside constitutional law.

“It will not be denied that power is of an encroaching nature and that it ought to be effectually restrained from passing the limits assigned to it.”

James Madison 'Federalist 48'

[talaniman]

States can and do govern themselves effectively mostly, but the federal government must be big enough to effectively fulfill it's obligation to all citizens. It's just common sense that as the population grows, so does the federal government. What stops the rich and powerful states from starving the smaller poorer ones? The FEDS. Isn't that what makes a nation, the central government? If not then we would have independent country states, that could do as they please. At least that's the theory, though I suspect the founders wanted some influence on the federal government for their own purposes.

Hello electoral college. Let's not forget senators were appointed by party bosses not the people.

[tomder55]

Let's not forget senators were appointed by party bosses not the people.

incorrect . The Senators were appointed by the States legislatures without a popular vote .

As envisioned by the Framers , the Senate was to represent state interests in Congress. The House of Representatives was meant to be the part of the legislative branch closest to the people.It took a lot of thought and debate to come up with the bicameral nature of the Congress. It was designed specifically to address the balance of interests of big and small states .
I'm for repeal of the 17th amendment . If there is a single cause to the rapid growth of the national government and the undermining of federalism ,it is the adoption of the 17th . And that is why I favor an article 5 convention because I know the Senate post 17th amendment can dictate to the state which amendments can be considered without a convention .

[talaniman]

The Senators were appointed by the States legislatures without a popular vote .

Like I said party bosses...STATE party bosses. The point being not elected so who where they ACCOUNTABLE to?

[jlisenbe]

Like I said party bosses...STATE party bosses. The point being not elected so who where they ACCOUNTABLE to?

So if the state legislature's are composed of party bosses, then who do you think makes up the Congress of the United States? And if it is likewise party bosses, then why should we trust them anymore than the state party bosses?

[talaniman]

Like I said party bosses...STATE party bosses. The point being not elected so who where they ACCOUNTABLE to?

Who WERE they accountable TO! Storming like heck here!

[tomder55]

They were accountable to the state. State legislatures get elected . Congressional Reps were responsible to the people . It was a good balance in a Federal system. What you want is the elimination of the autonomous state in this country where all decisions are made by representatives of the largest populated states ;or even worse by the swamp critters in the federal beurocracy who are indeed not accountable to the electorate ,the states ,or even some of the elected officials they purportedly serve..

[talaniman]

No that's not at all what I want, but we know for fact that whatever party gets power there are many ways to keep it that may not be apparent to everyone, such as gerrymandering the congressional districts, purging the voter rolls, or packing, and all kinds of rules, regulations and laws that challenge one group or another, or favors one group or another.

[Athos]

You still seem like an angry person to me.

You're darn right I'm angry. So should you be.

1,700 children separated from their parents and housed in cages the Trump Administration calls detention centers - more like concentration camps. Ingraham calls them "like summer camp".

This is done purposely. Five children dead since December in these camps due to lack of or absence of treatment. Are you angry yet?

Don't deflect with Hillary and Obama. She was cleared by 8 committees re Benghazi mostly led by Republicans and some bipartisan. No evidence of wrongdoing was ever found. Those are facts. The past is history. Now is now.

You claim you don't support Trump's behavior, only his policies. What policies? He doesn't have any, other than what he sees as supporting how own self at any given moment in time. And his behavior informs his "policies" - you can't have it both ways. In for policies, in for behavior.

The world wonders why so many evangelical Christians love the guy. They publicly agree his behavior is despicable, yet they cheer Trump on at rally after rally - "Lock them up, lock them up", they scream. Not exactly an imitation of Christ.

[paraclete]

The world wonders why so many evangelical Christians love the guy. They publicly agree his behavior is despicable, yet they cheer Trump on at rally after rally - "Lock them up, lock them up", they scream. Not exactly an imitation of Christ.

I think you need to be careful about bringing Christ into your arguments. Christians, like everyone else, are not perfect, so don't sit in judgment when choosing the lesser of two evils. Yes, political criminals of all persuasions should be tried, but not in the court of public opinion. Trump is continually tried in the court of public opinion. And you do not know whether people at a rally are Christians or agitators

[jlisenbe]

1,700 children separated from their parents and housed in cages the Trump Administration calls detention centers - more like concentration camps. Ingraham calls them "like summer camp".

So it would be better to put the children in jail with the parents? The problem lies with the idea that if you bring your children with you, you will have a better chance of being allowed to stay. That needs to be actively discouraged. To call the detention centers concentration camps tells me you must not know much about the Nazi concentration camps.

As to the subject of who evangelical Christians should have supported, there was no godly choice, so I went with the one who did not support abortion and who had some chance of reviving the economy, which was important to everyone looking for a job and for the poor. You will never see the day when I would vote for HC or anyone like her. Your objection is a valid one. Trump's character is pretty low, but the part you leave out of your argument is that there was not much alternative to Trump for the person who lives for Christ.

It's just politics. You object to Trump but, I guess, supported HC and BO, which means you have no entitlement to the moral high ground.

[talaniman]

Putting asylum seekers in jail in the first place is no where near a humane process and since you saw them comming then maybe we could be better prepared instead of hollering and screaming. That's the cruel way this dufus operates though and someone suffers whatever he does...except HIM.

[jlisenbe]

Note the pic below taken in 2014 when you and the ever supportive (of Mr. Obama) media were saying nothing about cages. The truth is, many of these children were from families who attempted to cross illegally. And you might want to read the link below the pic to find out that the situation is not nearly so bad as you attempt to portray it.



https://www.truthorfiction.com/trump...dren-in-cages/

[tomder55]

we used to have Ellis Island to screen immigrants . When they came here sick they were turned away . Trump should not be blamed when some one comes here with the flu and then dies from the flu.

[talaniman]

Naw the dufus hates brown kids and his cruelty knows no bounds.

https://www.themarshallproject.org/2...n-migrant-kids

[jlisenbe]

Yeah. Let's just pay no attention to the truth and go with ignoring the law.

[talaniman]

Now what law could that be?

[Athos]

Yeah. Let's just pay no attention to the truth and go with ignoring the law.

You guys are amazing. You're caught supporting an obvious evil, and you go right on supporting that evil. You learned that double-down business from your role model, Donald Trump. Evil laws need to be ignored. Ethics 101.

[waltero]

You guys are amazing. You're caught supporting an obvious evil, and you go right on supporting that evil. You learned that double-down business from your role model, Donald Trump. Evil laws need to be ignored. Ethics 101.

There is a loose balance of good and evil, and that the art of living consists in getting the greatest good out of the greatest evil.

[jlisenbe]

Now what law could that be?

Entering the United States illegally.

You guys are amazing. You're caught supporting an obvious evil, and you go right on supporting that evil. You learned that double-down business from your role model, Donald Trump

Please tell us that you did not vote for HC. If you did, then your ability to be critical of evil has come to an end.