[talaniman]

I am as against Trump's deficits as I was against Obama's. They are both irresponsible in that regard, but at least Trump has a very healthy economy.

You do realize that your link concluded that democrats have been lying about the Trump tax cuts?

"The Republican tax plan was signed into law just last month, and Democrats already have a well-worn, and misleading, talking point about it: 83 percent of the tax cuts go to the wealthiest 1 percent."

Now when the top 5% pay 2/3 of the taxes, and the bottom 50% pay about nothing, then how do you enact tax cuts that will benefit the bottom 50%?

I have no problem getting the facts out, and we all should take a politicians words with more than a grain of salt. As I have said before, Trust, but VERIFY.

[talaniman]

You remove them from the system, then you can deal with inequity in the system

Agreed if removing them from the system means a much better wage. That is starting to happen but won't get rolling for a few years in increments the way the law is written. Mathematically though there will always be a bottom half when compared to the whole, but there are more factors involved that need to be addressed, like rich guy deductions, and incentives to hoard and hide money as well as pay equity, which I define as a part of corporate governance. For example the calculation of benefits and perks, that all workers can benefit from, not just management or the boards and execs.

Obviously I advocate for new management for our government.

[jlisenbe]

About 3% of American workers earn minimum wage, so that is not the problem. Raising the minimum wage is suspect in many ways. It keeps teenagers from getting entry-level jobs. It results in fewer workers having jobs since it encourages automation by employers. It takes away the freedom of an individual to work for less than minimum wage if he/she chooses to.

What is really working now is the fact that we have a healthy economy and so there is increased competition for good workers, hence wages are going up. That is always the best answer.

And to say yet again, the idea that the wealthy are not paying their fair share is nothing more than liberal propaganda. Anyone who has not been drinking the liberal kool-aid too long, and who has more than five free minutes on their hands and internet access can see quickly that it is absolutely untrue. It is a lie spread by the political class, pure and simple.

[talaniman]

You mean 3% work for just $7.25 dollars, since that's the Federal minimum wage by law? Some states are higher and have passed $10-$15 dollars in increments as I said. Another factor besides wages for your consideration is PRICES, in all commodity sectors. On second thought never mind since it's fruitless to debate someone on fiscal policy/or law when they know nothing about it, and keep spouting republican trickle down economics to justify legal robbery of the citizenry. To keep human value in the hands of the coronated elite monied class, while the oldest trick in the book is perpertrating the whole sheeple theory against we the people as written by law.

Liberals are not the only ones playing politics are we?

[jlisenbe]

keep spouting republican trickle down economics to justify legal robbery of the citizenry.

Find where I have advocated for that. Otherwise, admit you are just making it up as you go, because that's what you are doing.

You mean 3% work for just $7.25 dollars, since that's the Federal minimum wage by law?

Yes, that's how it is. Many of them are teen-agers working a part-time job. Most adults who do start at the fed minimum wage stay there for a couple of years and then begin to move up.

My idea, which I used to tell my students all the time, is to make yourself valuable. Learn to do something that pays well. Become a welder, plumber, brick mason, truck driver, nurse, doctor, teacher, or any one of hundreds of other jobs that pay well. Get better at your job every day. Work hard and keep your big mouth shut. Work 60 hours a week if need be to support yourself. Live in freedom, get off of Uncle Sam's plantation, and stop depending on the almighty government to promise you a pay raise if you will only vote for him/her. Save enough money to invest (Yes, it can be done) and stop borrowing money for silliness. You don't need a new car. Live smart. Be an self-supporting, freedom loving American, free from nursing at the breast of the federal government.

That is a message I suspect I will never hear from you. If you have ever said it, I don't remember it.

[talaniman]

That's great advice for kids still living at home with some sort of support system, but adults with kids require a LOT more. Maybe that's the difference between us since a large bulk of my experience is with adults trying to rebuild their lives from trauma and mistakes, and circumstances beyond their control. Had you paid attention you may have gleaned that from what I have written, but now you know as obviously we have differing perspectives and that's OKAY.

[jlisenbe]

That's great advice for kids still living at home with some sort of support system, but adults with kids require a LOT more. Maybe that's the difference between us since a large bulk of my experience is with adults trying to rebuild their lives from trauma and mistakes, and circumstances beyond their control. Had you paid attention you may have gleaned that from what I have written, but now you know as obviously we have differing perspectives and that's OKAY.

I do see your point. I have worked with recovering drug addicts for well over ten years now. My experience recently has been they can get out of jail or out of a recovery center and have a job within a week. It's incredible.

Now a single mom with kids is in a bind. No doubt about it. That is why we should all join together in this country in calling for a return to some basic common sense and morality. We should tell young women, "Don't be STUPID and get pregnant outside of marriage." The consequences are devastating for both the woman and the child. The sorry man can just go off chasing another woman, but the mother is in a bad spot.

Can we join together and at least agree on that?

[Wondergirl]

Now a single mom with kids is in a bind. No doubt about it. That is why we should all join together in this country in calling for a return to some basic common sense and morality. We should tell young women, "Don't be STUPID and get pregnant outside of marriage." The consequences are devastating for both the woman and the child. The sorry man can just go off chasing another woman, but the mother is in a bad spot.

Can we join together and at least agree on that?

Why is it all on her? Why can't that male take responsibility to not go in for the attack every time a female gets within three feet of him OR if he just can't control himself (poor dear), pay child support and be a father to those kids?

[talaniman]

The problem is women with kids ,and those circumstances vary, NEED immediate assistance, not lectures and that's my FOCUS. I have often asked what is your plan AFTER the deed or event is done. An alarming thing I have seen is it's not just women who need IMMEDIATE help, but FAMILIES, both married and unmarried. The hardship to those people often extends to their immediate families who cannot sustain that type of burden for long because their resources are stretched to the limits themselves.

It's a very complex problem my friend that is well beyond JUST morality, but circumstance.

[jlisenbe]

And thus we see the problem. You will not even join in a call to young women to do what is in their best interest. I often am amazed at just how it is that liberals will not do even a wildly common-sense call such as to tell young women not to get pregnant out of wedlock. Oh well. I guess we'll let the problem just continue. It's on the same level as being afraid to tell smokers that it's really important for them to stop smoking.

Complex? It is far from complex. Do not have sex outside of marriage. A middle schooler can understand it. Granted, it does not solve existing problems, but surely we can develop some national courage and do the smart thing. You disappoint me.

[paraclete]

surely we can develop some national courage and do the smart thing. You disappoint me.

This is certainly needed in more ways than one

[Wondergirl]

And thus we see the problem. You will not even join in a call to young women to do what is in their best interest. I often am amazed at just how it is that liberals will not do even a wildly common-sense call such as to tell young women not to get pregnant out of wedlock. Oh well. I guess we'll let the problem just continue. It's on the same level as being afraid to tell smokers that it's really important for them to stop smoking.

Complex? It is far from complex. Do not have sex outside of marriage. A middle schooler can understand it. Granted, it does not solve existing problems, but surely we can develop some national courage and do the smart thing. You disappoint me.

And thus we see the problem. You will not even join in a call to men of every age to do what is in women's (and their own) best interest. I often am amazed at how conservatives will not do even a wildly common-sense thing such as to tell men of every age not to get a woman pregnant out of wedlock. Oh well. We all realize men have no self control. Apparently, you don't give a hoot if the problem continues. It's on the same level as being afraid to tell smokers that it's really important for them to stop smoking.

Complex? It is far from complex. Men, do not have sex outside of marriage. A middleschooler can understand it. Granted, it does not solve horniness problems, but surely men can develop some courage, self control, and do the smart thing. Read books instead. Get busy at work, school, and with hobbies. Volunteer and help "the least of these" at a nursing home, hospital, food bank, soup kitchen, animal shelter. Don't disappoint me!

[jlisenbe]

And thus we see the problem. You will not even join in a call to men of every age to do what is in women's (and their own) best interest. I often am amazed at how conservatives will not do even a wildly common-sense thing such as to tell men of every age not to get a woman pregnant out of wedlock. Oh well. We all realize men have no self control.

Absolutely I agree with you and join in the call now in the terms you have described. Of course I've done this many times before. Still, with me on board your call, do you now have the courage to join with me in calling for young women to avoid sex outside of marriage and out of wedlock births?

What is your response??

[paraclete]

but surely men can develop some courage, self control, and do the smart thing. Read books instead. Get busy at work, school, and with hobbies. Volunteer and help "the least of these" at a nursing home, hospital, food bank, soup kitchen, animal shelter. Don't disappoint me!

And none of this solves the horniness problem as you put it. Can you imagine pulling out your copy of War and Peace when out on a date, no, today you might advocate pulling out your phone. This will not impress. The woman has to clearly say No! And mean it, but young women are not taught this, they are taught to insist on a condom, which is sort of saying sex is OK

[jlisenbe]

Still waiting, WG. What is your response. Shall we make a call to men and women both?

[Wondergirl]

And none of this solves the horniness problem as you put it. Can you imagine pulling out your copy of War and Peace when out on a date, no, today you might advocate pulling out your phone.

Just so they don't pull out something else....

This will not impress. The woman has to clearly say No! And mean it, but young women are not taught this, they are taught to insist on a condom, which is sort of saying sex is OK

Nope! The guys have to say no. After all, you and JL insist they are the stronger and more reasonable sex, right?

Still waiting, WG. What is your response. Shall we make a call to men and women both?

I've made my response. To males: As much as she pleads for it, like a whimpering child wanting a cookie, JUST SAY NO!

[jlisenbe]

I've made my response. To males: As much as she pleads for it, like a whimpering child wanting a cookie, JUST SAY NO!

When I typed my question I already knew what your response would be. You just don't have the courage to take a stand with women. Sometimes I think you are so afraid of being labeled a conservative, evangelical Christian that you just can't summon up the courage to take a firm position. Maybe you are so in love with liberal politics that you are afraid to abandon your orthodoxy. At any rate, that's why I no longer like to respond to your posts. Too many words, too little willingness to take a stand. I was disappointed with Tal. Your response was spot on what I had expected.

JL insist they are the stronger and more reasonable sex, right?

Nope. Never said that. You're just making it up as you go along because you know you cannot defend your position.

[talaniman]

How long has the religious type been imploring no sex outside of wedlock? How well has it worked? What enforcement of such a position do you propose?

What should be done after the deed is done?

[jlisenbe]

How long has the religious type been imploring no sex outside of wedlock? How well has it worked? What enforcement of such a position do you propose?

Well, you seem to lack the conviction to make the call yourself, so don't be so critical of others who do. Maybe we genuinely care about women and don't want to see them having to raise a child, or children, alone. But it actually worked amazingly well until the 1960's. Out of wedlock birth rates were single digit back then. Now it is about 30%, and approaching 75% in the black population. That is a disaster.

How well did it work? From an article linked below. "Today the overwhelming majority of black children are raised in single female-headed families. As early as the 1880s, three-quarters of black families were two-parent. In 1925 New York City, 85 percent of black families were two-parent. One study of 19th-century slave families found that in up to three-fourths of the families, all the children had the same mother and father. Today's black illegitimacy rate of nearly 75 percent is also entirely new. In 1940, black illegitimacy stood at 14 percent."

Again, you disappoint me. It's such a logical, common-sense position to take that worked for centuries. I have no idea why anyone would shrink back from it.

https://www.cnsnews.com/commentary/w...rate-nearly-75

[Wondergirl]

You just don't have the courage to take a stand with women.

And you don't have the courage to admit that all you males MUST HAVE SEX and that's the entire problem.

Sometimes I think you are so afraid of being labeled a conservative, evangelical Christian that you just can't summon up the courage to take a firm position.

Sticks and stones....

Maybe you are so in love with liberal politics that you are afraid to abandon your orthodoxy.

My "orthodoxy" is as ridiculous as yours.

At any rate, that's why I no longer like to respond to your posts. Too many words, too little willingness to take a stand.

I have to take a stand? Oh, I did. And males are incapable of sticking to it. And how ruffled your male feathers would be if women demanded a ring AND marriage before allowing sex.