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jlisenbe · Apr 7, 2019, 12:02 PM

The general rule is to take a verse literally unless there is a genuinely compelling reason not to. The way that Jesus spoke of hell is plainly not intended to be taken figuratively. I might as well say that his references to adultery and murder are merely figurative.

waltero · Apr 7, 2019, 12:14 PM

Did a great fish really swallow Jonah and then spit him out, or is that an allegory? Did Lot's wife really turn into a pillar of salt? Was the Flood worldwide or local? Are we to understand the entire Bible literally, that every word is true?

A person might want to try and read those verses in the Bible Intuitively. Try to Grasp the main flow beyond the imaginable. If you end up getting the right "sensation" out of it, I bet you would have a hard time passing it on to others. They would think you are on "something".

Wondergirl · Apr 7, 2019, 12:32 PM

Originally Posted by jlisenbe

The general rule is to take a verse literally unless there is a genuinely compelling reason not to. The way that Jesus spoke of hell is plainly not intended to be taken figuratively. I might as well say that his references to adultery and murder are merely figurative.

Then what is hell?

jlisenbe · Apr 7, 2019, 01:52 PM

I would suggest you simply read what Jesus said about hell.

Wondergirl · Apr 7, 2019, 02:20 PM

Originally Posted by jlisenbe

I would suggest you simply read what Jesus said about hell.

I want to know your definition of it.

Jesus used words and descriptions his first-century uneducated listeners would understand.

jlisenbe · Apr 7, 2019, 02:37 PM

Jesus used words and descriptions his first-century uneducated listeners would understand.

Then an educated person like you should have no problems at all.

waltero · Apr 7, 2019, 02:37 PM

The conclusion is that the "proposition" that unbelievers are condemned to hell for eternal punishment is not Biblical.

Even, against the weight of evidence?

Then what is hell?

The Bible describes hell as a place of outer darkness, a lake of fire, a place of weeping and gnashing of teeth, a place of eternal separation from the blessings of God, a prison, a place of torment where the worm doesn’t turn or die.

Wondergirl · Apr 7, 2019, 02:45 PM

Originally Posted by waltero

The Bible describes hell as a place of outer darkness, a lake of fire, a place of weeping and gnashing of teeth, a place of eternal separation from the blessings of God, a prison, a place of torment where the worm doesn’t turn or die.

Exactly the images Jesus' 1st-century listeners understood.

waltero · Apr 7, 2019, 02:47 PM

Almost all the biblical teaching about hell comes from the lips of Jesus.

That Jesus used the most awful symbols imaginable to describe hell is no comfort to those who see them simply as symbols. We must not think of them as being merely symbols.

If these images are indeed symbols, then we must conclude that the reality is worse than the symbol suggests.

The function of symbols is to point beyond themselves to a higher or more intense state of actuality than the symbol itself can contain.

Wondergirl · Apr 7, 2019, 02:50 PM

Originally Posted by waltero

Almost all the biblical teaching about hell comes from the lips of Jesus.

That Jesus used the most awful symbols imaginable to describe hell is no comfort to those who see them simply as symbols. We must not think of them as being merely symbols.

If these images are indeed symbols, then we must conclude that the reality is worse than the symbol suggests.

The function of symbols is to point beyond themselves to a higher or more intense state of actuality than the symbol itself can contain.

I didn't say a word about symbols.

waltero · Apr 7, 2019, 04:37 PM

Exactly the "images" Jesus' 1st-century listeners understood.

It is not as you think...they understood nothing of what Jesus was talking about...not only because he was talking about Hell (Jews don't believe in hell), but because he is the living God. The people who were closest to Jesus, never understood what he was saying.Human nature goes against God.

I didn't say a word about symbols.

those graphic "images" of eternal punishment provoke the question, should we take these descriptions literally or are they merely symbols?

jlisenbe · Apr 7, 2019, 04:56 PM

There is a lot of difference between being uneducated and being stupid. I think we would have to be the latter in order to believe that Jesus was just kidding about hell.

waltero · Apr 7, 2019, 05:38 PM

A breath of relief is usually heard when someone declares, “Hell is a symbol for separation from God.” To be separated from God for eternity is no great threat to the impenitent person. The ungodly want nothing more than to be separated from God. Their problem in hell will not be separation from God, it will be the presence of God that will torment them. In hell, God will be present in the fullness of His divine wrath. He will be there to exercise His just punishment of the damned. They will know Him as an all-consuming fire.

Where did the Jews get their understanding of Death, Hell etc.? It appears as if some Christians have come to that same understanding.
Did not Jesus elaborate on this subject? How do you suppose some people hold to the same understanding as the Pre-Jesus, Jews???

The conclusion is that the proposition that unbelievers are condemned to hell for eternal punishment is not Biblical

Soooo, Unbelievers just die, off too oblivion while Fallen Angels enter into...?

We are not entitled, much less required, in our present condition to defend the doctrine of eternal punishment in any way that

either exceeds Scripture or reflects a perverse delight in damnation.

I'll go along with you on this one. I Don't want to believe that anybody go to hell. I know that everybody is a child of God, made in the likeness of him. Preaching Hellfire never agreed with me (even though it is not about me). I would rather focus on life (not my life), love and happiness.

Death and Sin are condemned to hell for eternal punishment.

Athos · Apr 9, 2019, 03:33 AM

Originally Posted by waltero

A breath of relief is usually heard when someone declares, “Hell is a symbol for separation from God.” To be separated from God for eternity is no great threat to the impenitent person. The ungodly want nothing more than to be separated from God. Their problem in hell will not be separation from God, it will be the presence of God that will torment them. In hell, God will be present in the fullness of His divine wrath. He will be there to exercise His just punishment of the damned. They will know Him as an all-consuming fire.

Where did the Jews get their understanding of Death, Hell etc.? It appears as if some Christians have come to that same understanding.
Did not Jesus elaborate on this subject? How do you suppose some people hold to the same understanding as the Pre-Jesus, Jews???

Soooo, Unbelievers just die, off too oblivion while Fallen Angels enter into...?

I'll go along with you on this one. I Don't want to believe that anybody go to hell. I know that everybody is a child of God, made in the likeness of him. Preaching Hellfire never agreed with me (even though it is not about me). I would rather focus on life (not my life), love and happiness.

Death and Sin are condemned to hell for eternal punishment.

Nothing above responds to the issue.

IF THIS SITE IS STILL MODERATED, I'M REQUESTING THE MODERATOR TO CLOSE THIS THREAD. THE PROPOSED ANSWERS ARE BECOMING REPETITIVE (WHEN THEY ARE LEGIBLE) AND NOTHING NEW HAS BEEN OFFERED.

THANK YOU.

waltero · Apr 9, 2019, 10:16 AM

The set up:

The quote must contain the following:
1- "Unbelievers", not a word that may or not mean Unbelievers.
2- "Condemned", a euphemism meaning the exact same thing is acceptable. NOTE: "Perish", for example, does NOT have the same meaning.
3- "Hell", an equivalent word for an afterlife for unbelievers is acceptable.
4- "Eternal punishment", both words are necessary, OR an absolute equivalent.

Irrelevant.

This is nothing more than a distorted projection or perspective...attempting to gain a specific vantage point in your Challenge.

The Question:

Can anyone provide a quote from the Bible where it is stated that unbelievers are condemned to hell for eternal punishment?

If you believe this saying without providing proof, please explain why you believe it. Thank you.

What is Hell?
Jewish belief, Christian belief? Lets just say that Hell is not eternal.
Revelations 20:40

Then both Death and "Hell" will be cast into the Lake of Fire...I'm Guessing the lake of fire is!

Unbelievers/Believers won't be known as Unbelievers/Believers in the afterlife...it won't matter what you believe or don't believe. At the point of Death, you either enter into life (Jesus) or Death (the First death, that of the body AKA Unbeliever).

You want to watch out for dat dare second death, I'm a bettin dat is a doozy!