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    talaniman's Avatar
    talaniman Posts: 54,051, Reputation: 10852
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    #141

    Dec 12, 2018, 06:49 AM
    Isn't the point of insurance to keep us from worrying about paying for stuff we cannot afford?
    jlisenbe's Avatar
    jlisenbe Posts: 3,264, Reputation: 154
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    #142

    Dec 12, 2018, 12:19 PM
    Isn't the point of insurance to keep us from worrying about paying for stuff we cannot afford?
    Insurance is meant to pay for things that would be catastrophic. Yes, I agree with that idea completely. Office visits, tests, minor surgeries, etc. should not be covered since those items are not things we can't pay for. That would lower the cost of health insurance and cause us to pay a lot more attention to what we are being charged.
    talaniman's Avatar
    talaniman Posts: 54,051, Reputation: 10852
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    #143

    Dec 12, 2018, 04:42 PM
    Speak for yourself! How much are your GP visits? Mine are nearly $600 bucks, and that's catastrophic.
    paraclete's Avatar
    paraclete Posts: 2,704, Reputation: 171
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    #144

    Dec 12, 2018, 06:02 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by talaniman View Post
    Speak for yourself! How much are your GP visits? Mine are nearly $600 bucks, and that's catastrophic.
    And you argue against my suggestions, and mine cost me ZERO, you live in a different reality, ripped off by the medical profession, the insurers and your government
    jlisenbe's Avatar
    jlisenbe Posts: 3,264, Reputation: 154
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    #145

    Dec 12, 2018, 07:43 PM
    And you argue against my suggestions, and mine cost me ZERO, you live in a different reality, ripped off by the medical profession, the insurers and your government.
    They don't cost you zero. You pay for it through taxes, and the part you don't cover has to be paid by someone else. There is no free lunch.

    Speak for yourself! How much are your GP visits? Mine are nearly $600 bucks, and that's catastrophic.
    If you are paying six hundred bucks for a regular GP visit, then you need to find another doctor. That's an outrage and just goes to illustrate my point.
    paraclete's Avatar
    paraclete Posts: 2,704, Reputation: 171
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    #146

    Dec 12, 2018, 08:32 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by jlisenbe View Post
    They don't cost you zero. You pay for it through taxes, and the part you don't cover has to be paid by someone else. There is no free lunch.
    Let me try and put this in perspective for you, I don't pay tax or the levy, my income being insufficient or exempt. I did pay tax at one time so you could say I prepaid.

    You live in a regime which extracts the greatest amount of blood with a great deal of bleeting, I don't. My thought processes on this and many subjects is quite different to yours and this comes from education and experience. I once thought as you do that it was a terrible idea that government should levy my income and use that money to pay for medical services but 40 years later I see that the outcome has, by and large, worked out well for most of the population. The system is not perfect but health care isn't the issue here that it is for you. I go to a doctor of my choice and if he has opted to be in the system, which he has, I don't pay for his services, he bills the government. Should I go to a doctor who wants me to pay directly for his services and some specialists do, I receive a rebate of part of the fee from the government. I have never been asked to pay anything like $600 for a visit to any doctor, and that includes radiology.

    The way this works is that they is a pool of funds out of which the fees are paid, you could say it is insurance but in reality it is not
    jlisenbe's Avatar
    jlisenbe Posts: 3,264, Reputation: 154
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    #147

    Dec 12, 2018, 08:40 PM
    You live in a regime which extracts the greatest amount of blood with a great deal of bleeting, I don't. My thought processes on this and many subjects is quite different to yours and this comes from education and experience. I once thought as you do that it was a terrible idea that government should levy my income and use that money to pay for medical services but 40 years later I see that the outcome has, by and large, worked out well for most of the population. The system is not perfect but health care isn't the issue here that it is for you. I go to a doctor of my choice and if he has opted to be in the system, which he has, I don't pay for his services, he bills the government. Should I go to a doctor who wants me to pay directly for his services and some specialists do, I receive a rebate of part of the fee from the government. I have never been asked to pay anything like $600 for a visit to any doctor, and that includes radiology.
    That's fine by me. I just wanted to point out that while your visit might cost zero to you, someone has to pay for it, and that process by itself will not hold down the cost of med care. When a doctor "bills the government", the doctor actually is billing the taxpayer. As to your "education and experience", it would seem that the experience that has made a great impression on you is someone else paying your medical bills, and that someone would be the taxpayers.

    I don't know where Tal got the six hundred dollar office visit from. Mine are closer to ten percent of that figure.
    talaniman's Avatar
    talaniman Posts: 54,051, Reputation: 10852
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    #148

    Dec 12, 2018, 09:29 PM
    More than half the costs are lab fees Obviously you are healthier than I am at this point in time. I pay $20 bucks out of pocket.
    jlisenbe's Avatar
    jlisenbe Posts: 3,264, Reputation: 154
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    #149

    Dec 13, 2018, 04:54 AM
    More than half the costs are lab fees Obviously you are healthier than I am at this point in time. I pay $20 bucks out of pocket.
    So someone else has to pay the rest. If you are talking about Medicare, then at least you can say that, in years past, you paid in your share. That's a little different animal. And yet it all does absolutely, positively, nothing to hold down costs, unlike if you had to pay the costs yourself. In fact, the hidden nature of what is being charged and why all of tests are being done is an encouragement for prices to go up.
    paraclete's Avatar
    paraclete Posts: 2,704, Reputation: 171
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    #150

    Dec 13, 2018, 05:33 AM
    Don't you just hate circular arguments, rhetorical question
    talaniman's Avatar
    talaniman Posts: 54,051, Reputation: 10852
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    #151

    Dec 13, 2018, 07:21 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by jlisenbe View Post
    So someone else has to pay the rest. If you are talking about Medicare, then at least you can say that, in years past, you paid in your share. That's a little different animal. And yet it all does absolutely, positively, nothing to hold down costs, unlike if you had to pay the costs yourself. In fact, the hidden nature of what is being charged and why all of tests are being done is an encouragement for prices to go up.
    I and most of us pay a premium every month plus a deductible every year, for 80/20 insurance. That's not going to change, even as I make that Medicare (Another 80/10 deal) transition, which is an added cost in my household, and while I agree that the price is way too high for health insurance, I think the price is to high for EVERYTHING, as we both have seen things go up. That's why I think it's more a systematic issue than just one thing. The good news is more people working and in theory sharing costs across the board, and maybe that should stabilize the cost of health care, but not for a few years at best as we get more and better new ways of doing things.

    For now though, we are caught in a mess that needs fixing at a time when more people NEED more. I don't see quick simple fixes, either, as it's a more long term process that needs implementation. That signals to me to keep working on it. LOL, one of my doctors just informed me they don't accept Medicare payments, and I would be responsible for any charges and fees, and have to be reimbursed by Medicare, or the supplemental carrier, so guess whose shopping around for a new doctor? I liked her, but cannot keep her.

    I feel like buying a new truck and telling everybody to go to hell!
    jlisenbe's Avatar
    jlisenbe Posts: 3,264, Reputation: 154
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    #152

    Dec 13, 2018, 07:25 AM
    The good news is more people working and in theory sharing costs across the board, and maybe that should stabilize the cost of health care,
    True in some ways, but it does nothing to lower the cost of health care, only to perhaps lower the cost of health insurance per individual. That, as I understand it, can only happen when more young people get on insurance rolls and essentially subsidize the care of the older folk like us.

    so guess whose shopping around for a new doctor? I liked her, but cannot keep her.
    Now that is how health care costs can be contained at least some, but it didn't happen until cost became a factor, not for Medicare of an insurance company, but for you.

    Don't you just hate circular arguments, rhetorical question.
    I don't think you understand what a circular argument is.
    talaniman's Avatar
    talaniman Posts: 54,051, Reputation: 10852
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    #153

    Dec 13, 2018, 07:41 AM
    Life is about MY costs and the ways to mitigate them. Should I buy the truck and enjoy, or pay a doctor and live? The thought of forking over my hard earned dollars to help a doctor pay for his summer home irks the heck out of me. I must note that I didn't feel that way 20 years ago when I was shaking my butt every weekend partying with the peeps. 8D The good old days.
    jlisenbe's Avatar
    jlisenbe Posts: 3,264, Reputation: 154
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    #154

    Dec 13, 2018, 09:23 AM
    Life is about MY costs and the ways to mitigate them. Should I buy the truck and enjoy, or pay a doctor and live?
    When the alternative is to make someone else pay the bills, then I think you should postpone the truck and pay your own way.

    I must note that I didn't feel that way 20 years ago when I was shaking my butt every weekend partying with the peeps.
    Now that made me laugh! Oh to be young again, but to know what we know now. I would do a much better job a second time around.
    DrShivaniGour's Avatar
    DrShivaniGour Posts: 0, Reputation: 1
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    #155

    Dec 13, 2018, 09:56 AM
    Nice question
    jlisenbe's Avatar
    jlisenbe Posts: 3,264, Reputation: 154
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    #156

    Dec 13, 2018, 11:23 AM
    If you are a med doctor, then your comments will be insightful. Of course you are welcome one way or the other, but especially so if you're a health care provider.
    talaniman's Avatar
    talaniman Posts: 54,051, Reputation: 10852
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    #157

    Dec 13, 2018, 01:17 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by jlisenbe View Post
    When the alternative is to make someone else pay the bills, then I think you should postpone the truck and pay your own way.
    I haven't asked anyone to pay a darn thing and point out I still pay premiums every month and deductibles every year and co pays per visit for 80/20 insurance. You pay Medicare premiums as will I very soon for more of this 80/20 crap! I'm more than ready to try something else and those insurance companies can KMA, and those doctors need to GUARANTEE their work, or give my money back!

    Now that made me laugh! Oh to be young again, but to know what we know now. I would do a much better job a second time around.
    Unfortunately I'm still trying to get this time around right cause its all I got!
    jlisenbe's Avatar
    jlisenbe Posts: 3,264, Reputation: 154
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    #158

    Dec 13, 2018, 03:08 PM
    I haven't asked anyone to pay a darn thing and point out I still pay premiums every month and deductibles every year and co pays per visit for 80/20 insurance. You pay Medicare premiums as will I very soon for more of this 80/20 crap! I'm more than ready to try something else and those insurance companies can KMA, and those doctors need to GUARANTEE their work, or give my money back!
    OK. If you are on insurance, then you're good to go. Your comment about the truck took me in the wrong direction.

    Yeah, I'm on Medicare. Turned 65 about six months ago. Good news/bad news.
    smoothy's Avatar
    smoothy Posts: 25,495, Reputation: 2853
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    #159

    Dec 13, 2018, 05:50 PM
    Which Medicare supplement plan? Hope you got the right one during your initial open enrollment? Did you sit down with someone or just wing it like too many do, and get stuck in something they later lack the ability to qualify for because of medical conditions or declining health? You only have that one shot to get the right plan without being subject to any of that. Every other one after that depends on your health to qualify.
    paraclete's Avatar
    paraclete Posts: 2,704, Reputation: 171
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    #160

    Dec 13, 2018, 09:25 PM
    Too complex, what ever happened to equality

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