[excon]

The idea of Social Security and Medicare came from Bismark Germany . They did not want to take on radical socialists so they implemented Socialism lite ..

Hello again, tom:

The entire premise of my post is that "socialism lite" works pretty well within a capitalist system.. I see that I've won you over..

I'm just suggesting that if Medicare works pretty well WITHOUT everybody being covered, wouldn't it be that much better if we covered EVERYBODY?? It'll save us money and improve health..

Lemme show you the math.. If, as a nation, we spend X amount on health care, and subtracted the part the insurance industry takes, there'll be enough left over to cover everybody, and buy a few aircraft carriers to boot. Yes, insurance company executives ARE paid that much.

Lemme finish by saying, that as a staunch capitalist, I abhor the destruction of an entire industry.. But, when that industry serves the needs of its stock holders over the needs of the people they serve, it's time to take the profit OUT of medical services..

excon

[talaniman]

If you are saying if you cannot afford to educate your kids, or see a doctor when sick, too bad? That's not good enough in a country where half the people are poor and all the money goes to the rich. So does it matter what you call it, or who named it the goal is to provide for those things that are necessary to support life and health.

So labels aside Tom, how is that accomplished when half the country can't afford it? Obviously capitalism alone hasn't gotten it done even if some have done and are doing well.

Hello Ex, great thread, I'm with you. The basics should be free and available to all, and the working poor should have dignity and respect, and OPPORTUNITY.

I would rather be lucky than good and win a few more games. Guess my luck ran out too. Bummer!

[tomder55]

I did not say it works well. I say it will be insolvent in less than a decade . That is your typical socialist outcome . The only way out is to offer substandard care and pick the peoples pockets more .

VA is socialism because it also provides the care AND it is the glaring example of when the government takes over a service better managed by the private sector . It is a basket case .

In the case of Medicare and Social Security you can add the ponzi scheme structure to the institutions . Collapse is inevitable . The young workers who are now supporting the financing of Medicare cannot support the health care of the aged . It will not exist when it is their turn to utilize the services .Any yet you think that adding people who can use the benefits will somehow make the system stronger ? Dude !
FREE ? That is the biggest fallacy of your argument. NOTHING IS FREE .

[talaniman]

DUDE, you better come up with something that takes care of the old folks the kids and the poor! Stop making excuses why you can't! Free sounds GREAT to me.

[tomder55]

as long as someone else pays for it ;free is great .

[excon]

as long as someone else pays for it ;free is great .

Hello again, tom:

Not free.. Nothing is free..

Here's the math again.. Let's start with whatever number, as a nation, we're CURRENTLY spending on healthcare. Let's say that 25% of that goes to the insurance industry.. If we eliminate that part, then we've got 25% MORE to spend on actual health care, WITHOUT digging into our pockets.

With that added money, I suggest we can cover EVERYBODY and buy some aircraft carriers on top of it..

Sure.. Doctors who want fees for service will find other work to do. They can probably run a hedge fund on Wall Street.. The medical profession will taken over by doctors who want to serve instead of getting rich.


excon

[tomder55]

oh so doctors work for free in your system . I see

4-year undergraduate degree program,

4 years in medical school, and then complete 3-7 years

of residency training before they are eligible for medical licensing even more if they want to specialize

so they can get paid like a barista at WaWa .What is another name for involuntaty servitude ?

[talaniman]

What is another name for involuntaty servitude ?

Immigrants.

[excon]

oh so doctors work for free in your system . I see

Hello tom:

When you work for fees, you order as many fee producing tests or procedures that make YOU money, but don't serve your patient..

As opposed to fees, doctors at the Mayo Clinic are on salary.. They provide pretty good medicine, don't they? Fact is, they provide the BEST medicine the world has to offer, and on salary too..

excon

[talaniman]

Save your breath Ex, Tom doesn't believe in a living wage let alone this fee stuff. Goes against his free market God. Oops did I say free? Forgive my profanity Tomder.

[paraclete]

as long as someone else pays for it ;free is great .

Now you get the concept, so we get the rich to pay for the poor they have exploited. You red leggers just don't want to pay your share. You can't get something free unless someone pays for it, if you pay for it, it isn't free. I don't know why I have to explain these things

[tomder55]

oh you mean all those 6 figure salary physicians and surgeons in the Mayo clinic. Do you think physicians in private practice are making more ? No they aren't . Mayo clinic salaries are on average with the industry . You gotta let go of the emperor's propaganda . There is zero chance a doctor is going to invest so much in their career without being well compensated .
It's a nice gig . They work in a prestigious hospital .Don't need to add the expense of supporting your own practice ;staffing ,payroll facility ,insurance etc. and still get WELL compensated .

As a non-profit institution it does very well . It reported $12 billion income in 2017. It reported revenues of $3.1 billion in the first quarter of this year

[paraclete]

oh you mean all those 6 figure salary physicians and surgeons in the Mayo clinic. Do you think physicians in private practice are making more ? No they aren't . Mayo clinic salaries are on average with the industry . You gotta let go of the emperor's propaganda . There is zero chance a doctor is going to invest so much in their career without being well compensated .
It's a nice gig . They work in a prestigious hospital .Don't need to add the expense of supporting your own practice ;staffing ,payroll facility ,insurance etc. and still get WELL compensated .

As a non-profit institution it does very well . It reported $12 billion income in 2017. It reported revenues of $3.1 billion in the first quarter of this year

Don't talk to me about the medical profession, I used to work for a medical entrepreneur. They are a pack of money grubbing b@stards who prostitute their profession, even my own GP refers for every little thing, I know what's going on.

[talaniman]

Tom, I see your eyes get brighter when you write billions associated with dollars.