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    excon's Avatar
    excon Posts: 21,482, Reputation: 2992
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    #621

    Oct 25, 2018, 12:42 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by tomder55 View Post
    Ex is the only libertarian progressive on this board who is honest on this subject . He proudly proclaims he wants open borders .
    Hello again:

    Well, if we didn't HAVE borders we wouldn't BE American, or Russian, or African. We'd just be people.. Most of the hatred going on in the world is because of BORDERS.. I say let's get rid of 'em. They've outlived their usefulness.

    excon
    jlisenbe's Avatar
    jlisenbe Posts: 3,264, Reputation: 154
    Well & Pump Expert
     
    #622

    Oct 25, 2018, 01:09 PM
    I'll agree with you when you are ready to get rid of your property lines and let anyone in your house who wants to come in. It's the same thing. Property lines, door locks, border, they all serve the same purpose.
    talaniman's Avatar
    talaniman Posts: 54,051, Reputation: 10852
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    #623

    Oct 25, 2018, 01:46 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by jlisenbe View Post
    I'll agree with you when you are ready to get rid of your property lines and let anyone in your house who wants to come in. It's the same thing. Property lines, door locks, border, they all serve the same purpose.
    Well why not have guards and check points at the city limits why don't you?
    tomder55's Avatar
    tomder55 Posts: 1,741, Reputation: 341
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    #624

    Oct 25, 2018, 04:11 PM
    actually most of the hatred is over issues of ideology.
    paraclete's Avatar
    paraclete Posts: 2,704, Reputation: 171
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    #625

    Oct 25, 2018, 04:15 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by tomder55 View Post
    actually most of the hatred is over issues of ideology.
    Ok I'll bite, what ideology do the migrants have that you object too? How do you know they have this ideology?
    Wondergirl's Avatar
    Wondergirl Posts: 37,829, Reputation: 5427
    Jobs & Parenting Expert
     
    #626

    Oct 25, 2018, 04:20 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by tomder55 View Post
    actually most of the hatred is over issues of ideology.
    No, most of the hatred is fear of brown people, fear inspired by our president.

    If the caravan was full of beautiful white women, cute white teen girls, and adorable white female children, there would be no problem. Our president would send hundreds of buses south to pick them up and house them in his hotels in the US.
    tomder55's Avatar
    tomder55 Posts: 1,741, Reputation: 341
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    #627

    Oct 25, 2018, 05:49 PM
    I did not say there was any hatred in associated with this border issue at all . I was responding to Ex's specific comment that borders are the cause of " MOST of the hatred" in the world . As to the reason to opposing an unauthorized mass migration crossing the US border ,there are many reasons to oppose it that has nothing to do with race or ideology .

    Clete you're so compassionate I'm sure you would have no issue with a mass migration to your nation . Maybe like Ex you don't believe in borders. Maybe you are ok with allowing anyone admission into your country .

    WG I could care less why Trump oppose the so called 'caravan' . My issues is rule of law . Bum rushing the border is not the correct way to gain access to this country .
    jlisenbe's Avatar
    jlisenbe Posts: 3,264, Reputation: 154
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    #628

    Oct 25, 2018, 07:23 PM
    If the caravan was full of beautiful white women, cute white teen girls, and adorable white female children, there would be no problem. Our president would send hundreds of buses south to pick them up and house them in his hotels in the US.
    Nope. They would be illegal aliens. That's what some of you don't get. Anybody and everybody cannot come into this country. There is a legal process involved. I know it's hard for some of you to believe that those of us who believe in the rule of law actually pay a lot of attention to the law and not very much to race, but it's true. I find that the people who obsess about race are actually the liberals. You attempt to turn everything into a racial issue, as your post illustrates.
    talaniman's Avatar
    talaniman Posts: 54,051, Reputation: 10852
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    #629

    Oct 25, 2018, 07:28 PM
    I've seen more people bum rush Walmart's on Black Friday. I bet Walmart's could process those caravan people in no time no problem.
    talaniman's Avatar
    talaniman Posts: 54,051, Reputation: 10852
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    #630

    Oct 25, 2018, 07:35 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by jlisenbe View Post
    Nope. They would be illegal aliens. That's what some of you don't get. Anybody and everybody cannot come into this country. There is a legal process involved. I know it's hard for some of you to believe that those of us who believe in the rule of law actually pay a lot of attention to the law and not very much to race, but it's true. I find that the people who obsess about race are actually the liberals. You attempt to turn everything into a racial issue, as your post illustrates.
    Liberals say process them humanly and quit with the over the top ideological rhetoric. Show us don't tell us. You got the power, so show me something other than the 1.2% in a falling steadily unemployment number.
    tomder55's Avatar
    tomder55 Posts: 1,741, Reputation: 341
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    #631

    Oct 25, 2018, 07:57 PM
    I've seen more people bum rush Walmart's on Black Friday. I bet Walmart's could process those caravan people in no time no problem.
    this is true . But this is government at work and processing a single asylum seeker takes months . I doubt that most of them qualify for asylum status . You don't want families separated and you don't want children living with adults in detention centers .If they get housed in detention you call it a concentration camp. Do you want them just released in the country to go their own way ;to wander the streets ? Why don't you just admit like Ex that you are for NO border control and are an open border advocate ? Come on admit it !
    talaniman's Avatar
    talaniman Posts: 54,051, Reputation: 10852
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    #632

    Oct 25, 2018, 09:34 PM
    My idea of border control differs greatly from yours probably and surely vastly different than the dufus. It may be closer to this idea,

    https://www.vox.com/the-big-idea/201...-humane-reform

    I mean for the costs of a few air craft, or instead of a big beautiful wall, we can get more judges and asylum experts to actually process people through, without separating families and hiding kids. Then a bit of diplomacy instead of badgering we can move forward with a workable humane process and also give help and support to remedy the root cause of the migrant problem.

    It's been done before and if the dufus wasn't so hard boiled and belligerent or didn't need an enemy to show how tough he is we could actually deal with this as an event, and not a crisis that scares the bejesus out of folks. It's not like we haven't dealt with it before, maybe not as perfect as some have wanted but way better than Thug Dufus!
    paraclete's Avatar
    paraclete Posts: 2,704, Reputation: 171
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    #633

    Oct 25, 2018, 09:50 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by talaniman View Post

    I mean for the costs of a few air craft, or instead of a big beautiful wall, we can get more judges and asylum experts to actually process people through, without separating families and hiding kids. Then a bit of diplomacy instead of badgering we can move forward with a workable humane process and also give help and support to remedy the root cause of the migrant problem.

    Dufus!
    Let us just think for a moment Tal, what is the problem, it is a media generated problem, the hordes are invading whether they come from the east or the north or the south it is the same old mantra, but the horde isn't millions, you already have those, it is a few thousand unfortunates. You don't actually want to process their claims while they sit in camps on your border has would be done elsewhere in the world, you want to let them in because after all it is the humane thing to do. The way to deal with this event is to use the money for the aircraft carriers or the wall to actually do some good in the world, put some real aid, not tied aid into those countries, build some industries give them some real law and order and grow a back bone
    talaniman's Avatar
    talaniman Posts: 54,051, Reputation: 10852
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    #634

    Oct 25, 2018, 10:23 PM
    We already have that tool but the dufus is to dumb and incompetent to use it, as I referenced. He would rather threaten to defund this policy than help it work.

    https://www.state.gov/j/inl/rls/fs/2017/260869.htm

    Like you said though there are only 7,000 people walking this way, we get that many people together for a Friday night high school football game... and they don't sell beer!

    The dufus can exaggerate anything into a hyped up crisis in his blowhard fashion. He would rather pick fights with civil allies and helpless unfortunates than tell Vlad Kim, and Saud to screw off.
    jlisenbe's Avatar
    jlisenbe Posts: 3,264, Reputation: 154
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    #635

    Oct 26, 2018, 04:14 AM
    The way to deal with this event is to use the money for the aircraft carriers or the wall to actually do some good in the world, put some real aid, not tied aid into those countries, build some industries give them some real law and order and grow a back bone.
    The fantasy world you live in must be a truly beautiful place. Building industries that give them law and order?? Growing backbones?? Go back to the beginning of our country. The law and order, the industry, the businesses, and the backbone came from the people who lived here. It is always that way. The idea that we can go in with our "Build a Country" kit is an old, tired, and failed idea.
    tomder55's Avatar
    tomder55 Posts: 1,741, Reputation: 341
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    #636

    Oct 26, 2018, 05:20 AM
    or in Clete's world you find a remote island to park them .

    tal your "solution "does not answer the question .If everyone is eligible to come into the country then in fact you don't believe in border control ;as I suspected .
    tomder55's Avatar
    tomder55 Posts: 1,741, Reputation: 341
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    #637

    Oct 26, 2018, 05:28 AM
    We more that $ 127 million in aid to Honduras this year;almost $300 million to Guatemala ,almost $100 million to Mexico . Maybe we should do a "regime change " and install someone who gives more than a rat's @ss about the people .
    talaniman's Avatar
    talaniman Posts: 54,051, Reputation: 10852
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    #638

    Oct 26, 2018, 07:43 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by tomder55 View Post
    or in Clete's world you find a remote island to park them .

    tal your "solution "does not answer the question .If everyone is eligible to come into the country then in fact you don't believe in border control ;as I suspected .
    I said process them humanely Tom. Them and everyone else. So we start with humane processors I would think.

    Quote Originally Posted by tomder55 View Post
    We more that $ 127 million in aid to Honduras this year;almost $300 million to Guatemala ,almost $100 million to Mexico . Maybe we should do a "regime change " and install someone who gives more than a rat's @ss about the people .
    I won't argue with that, just point out our past ventures from 'Nam to now. With our own political issues in full disarray, maybe we start at home with that regime thingy.
    excon's Avatar
    excon Posts: 21,482, Reputation: 2992
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    #639

    Oct 26, 2018, 08:01 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by tomder55 View Post
    My issues is rule of law . Bum rushing the border is not the correct way to gain access to this country .
    Hello again, tom:

    What makes you think bum rushing the border will WORK? It WON'T, of course. You needn't worry. The brown people WILL be kept at bay.

    In terms of no borders, I'm NOT advocating that we rid ourselves of such things NOW.. I'm simply suggesting that the HISTORY of the world, is RIFE with borders having been torn down.. Sometime down the road, we'll find that we ARE one people, borders notwithstanding.. And, ONE people should have ONE government and ONE home..

    And, I don't think ANY of that would cause a person to think that he could come into my home.. I just don't.. It's CIVILIZATION that keeps people from invading my home, NOT property lines..

    This conversation reminds me of another one.. Some Christians believe that WITHOUT God, people will rob, rape, murder and cause general mayhem. Do you believe that??

    excon
    tomder55's Avatar
    tomder55 Posts: 1,741, Reputation: 341
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    #640

    Oct 26, 2018, 08:14 AM
    Yeah one of these days we'll live in that Star Trek world you imagine.

    Some Christians believe that WITHOUT God, people will rob, rape, murder and cause general mayhem. Do you believe that??
    No I'm sure that the laws of man keep some people in line . Amazingly most of those laws have religious foundations ;not necessarily Christian . I also see where some laws based interpretation of religion and religious tenet cause people to rape ,murder and cause general mayhem . Some of them don't believe in borders too.

    Why do I think Bum rushing the border works ? Because we saw it happen here already .In fact under the emperor's reign the rate was somewhere between 300,000 -400,000 illegal entries a year.

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