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    jlisenbe's Avatar
    jlisenbe Posts: 3,324, Reputation: 154
    Well & Pump Expert
     
    #561

    Oct 21, 2018, 12:29 PM
    At least he will be able to put all the evidence he has against Trump in a thimble, so it won't weigh him down any.
    talaniman's Avatar
    talaniman Posts: 54,250, Reputation: 10853
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    #562

    Oct 21, 2018, 02:22 PM
    Wishful thinking? Hopeful wishing? I see a lot of right wing heads exploding in the next few years. Be a good time to convert to the TRUTH, and stop holding your nose.

    paraclete's Avatar
    paraclete Posts: 2,705, Reputation: 172
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    #563

    Oct 21, 2018, 03:05 PM
    Well he may be right, but then less military spending and adventurism would ease the burden
    jlisenbe's Avatar
    jlisenbe Posts: 3,324, Reputation: 154
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    #564

    Oct 21, 2018, 04:45 PM
    Be a good time to convert to the TRUTH,
    And just what truth are you referring to?
    excon's Avatar
    excon Posts: 21,482, Reputation: 2992
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    #565

    Oct 22, 2018, 07:32 AM
    Hello again, tom:

    Instead of starting another thread, I'd like your opinion.. What happens IF there's a red wave? What happens if we EMBRACE Donald Trump?? What happens if the Mueller probe is shut down? What happens if it's buried? What does the next 50 years look like??

    It's certainly gonna be WAY different than the liberal America I grew up in.

    excon
    jlisenbe's Avatar
    jlisenbe Posts: 3,324, Reputation: 154
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    #566

    Oct 22, 2018, 08:11 AM
    It's certainly gonna be WAY different than the liberal America I grew up in.
    We can only hope.
    excon's Avatar
    excon Posts: 21,482, Reputation: 2992
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    #567

    Oct 22, 2018, 09:46 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by jlisenbe View Post
    We can only hope.
    Hello again, j:

    I dunno.. We completed the interstate highway system and ended segregation in the south. We went to the moon and won the Cold War. We passed the voting rights act and protected the environment.. We passed health care for all.. We had relatively free education, and a booming middle class for years upon years..

    That all ended when Reagan came along..

    excon
    jlisenbe's Avatar
    jlisenbe Posts: 3,324, Reputation: 154
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    #568

    Oct 22, 2018, 01:29 PM
    Greetings, Ex:

    Uhm... when Reagan came along, the unemployment rate was 7% and inflation was 12%. Yeah, things were really great. You failed to mention the Vietnam War and the beginning of a welfare state that has been a disaster. You did not pass health care for all before or since Reagan. I will give liberals credit for progress with civil rights, but the interstate highway system? It was started by, and named after, President Dwight D. Eisenhower, who was not exactly a famous liberal. Going to the moon was a nationwide effort and was hardly the exclusive domain of liberals. Won the Cold War? That's a funny one. The Cold War was "won" during, and due to, the Reagan admin. Then there is that famous liberal Barack Obama who doubled the national debt.
    tomder55's Avatar
    tomder55 Posts: 1,741, Reputation: 341
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    #569

    Oct 22, 2018, 04:20 PM
    The SS and Medicare scare is a worn out ploy that hasn't worked for the Dems for years. They have NOTHING to do with the deficit except for the fraud the government has been doing for decades by defrauding the taxpayers adding the revenue into the general funds instead of holding it in a separate account. Let's face facts ;you know and I know that both programs are insolvent ;and will be getting worse . You know and I know that the solutions that we will be offered is going to suck and both sides are positioning to blame the other side when the sh+t hits the fan .
    excon's Avatar
    excon Posts: 21,482, Reputation: 2992
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    #570

    Oct 22, 2018, 04:54 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by jlisenbe View Post
    the interstate highway system? It was started by, and named after, President Dwight D. Eisenhower, who was not exactly a famous liberal.
    Hello again, j:

    I wasn't speaking about liberals, per se.. I was speaking about liberal governance.

    excon
    jlisenbe's Avatar
    jlisenbe Posts: 3,324, Reputation: 154
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    #571

    Oct 22, 2018, 05:43 PM
    So Ex, what exactly is liberal governance?
    tomder55's Avatar
    tomder55 Posts: 1,741, Reputation: 341
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    #572

    Oct 22, 2018, 06:53 PM
    Ex I have no intention of embracing Trump . But what is right is right ;and it is clear to me that the Mueller probe is more a symptom of the governing class doing a soft coup against an outsider who won the election.

    I don't think much will change or has changed .Trump plans on spending more on infrastructure than the Dems ever dreamed of . You want bridges ,airports roads , then Trump is your man . The Republicans have all but abandoned fiscal responsibility and if they lose the House it will be because the Republican base will be holding them to account . They can't out Dem the Dem so I don't understand why they are trying . Trump ;except for taxes and deregulation has been more liberal than many liberals . He promised to support a $ trillion infrastructure plan and I have no doubt that without resistance from the right ,he'll get that through .

    He wants guaranteed paid leave .That is a Dem idea .

    btw there is no such thing as 'free health care and free education . Someone pays it .But that word free sells well in campaign rhetoric . It is more likely that Trump ,who actually supports a form of universal health care ,would work with the Dems to carve out a bill. Anyone who actually listens to him knows that he constantly rhetorically takes on big pharma and insurance companies . Both Trump and the Dems are very critical of drug pricing . He accused them of 'getting away with murder' .He wants the drug companies to disclose the price of the drug in their advertisements . If allowed he will enact reforms in health care involving pricing and access.

    He has come out in support of a so called path to citizenship for illegals who were brought in as children ,very similar to the Dems "dreamer " plan .

    He sided with many of the libs like Bolshevik Bernie and Elizabeth Warren in opposing the TPP trade deal and followed through by withdrawing from it .

    He has signed legislation designed to promote women in the areas of science ,technology ,engineering and math . He signed
    the "Promoting Women In Entrepreneurship Act." The law authorizes the National Science Foundation to support entrepreneurial programs for women.He signed an EO for a $200 million a year education grants for woman and minorities interested in science.

    I don't think that the Cold War was won at all because we completely blew it after the wall came down. Putin gained power because we did not support democracy in Russia . All the rhetoric about Trump being a Putin puppet is shear nonsense . He has been been more hardline against Russia than any post cold war President. That is just a fact . He's expanded sanctions ;war gamed right on Russia's borders and we now have US troops and weapons systems in nations like Poland and the Baltics states . He has taken on Russia in Syria ,actions that resulted in the loss of at least 200 Russian 'green shirt ' army troops .
    On two separate occasions, he ordered expulsions of Russian diplomats stationed in the United States.
    He closed down 3 Russian facilities . He has sent weapons to support Ukraine ,including 210 Javelin anti-tank missiles . If Putin did meddle in the US elections ,he is not getting what he bargained for .
    paraclete's Avatar
    paraclete Posts: 2,705, Reputation: 172
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    #573

    Oct 22, 2018, 07:00 PM
    Liberal governance, first you have to define liberal, liberal is not socialism, it is a sense of social justice, equality for all , doesn't that phrase turn up somewhere in your national psyche
    and upholding conservative values
    . Governance has some sense of morality attached to it
    tomder55's Avatar
    tomder55 Posts: 1,741, Reputation: 341
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    #574

    Oct 22, 2018, 07:28 PM
    Liberal governance is
    securing the freedom of the individual by limiting the power of the government. That hasn't happened in this country in a century .
    talaniman's Avatar
    talaniman Posts: 54,250, Reputation: 10853
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    #575

    Oct 22, 2018, 08:29 PM
    Liberal governance is letting people pursue their freedom while effectively protecting and defending the constitution of the USA! That might happen if the rich dudes kept their hands of our government.
    paraclete's Avatar
    paraclete Posts: 2,705, Reputation: 172
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    #576

    Oct 22, 2018, 11:34 PM
    Tal, that's not going to happen, the more of them you get the more they will make their capitalist utopia and screw the masses
    jlisenbe's Avatar
    jlisenbe Posts: 3,324, Reputation: 154
    Well & Pump Expert
     
    #577

    Oct 23, 2018, 04:09 AM
    So when the government takes my money to give to another person, in what way is it protecting my freedom and defending the Constitution?
    tomder55's Avatar
    tomder55 Posts: 1,741, Reputation: 341
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    #578

    Oct 23, 2018, 05:13 AM
    So when the government takes my money to give to another person, in what way is it protecting my freedom and defending the Constitution?
    you see the cr@p sandwich the Dems are proposing ? In addition to this Medicare for all freebee Sen Harris is proposing just cutting a check for $500 /month to everyone within the means level she decides . Sen Booker came out with a 'baby bonds' plan where everyone on the day of their birth gets a $1000 payout from the government to be held by the government invested in "safe " low yield "investments" aka government securities (?) . Then every year additional funds would be added based on the family means . The government would hold on to this money until that person reaches 18 .

    The Dems platform seems to be
    jlisenbe's Avatar
    jlisenbe Posts: 3,324, Reputation: 154
    Well & Pump Expert
     
    #579

    Oct 23, 2018, 05:24 AM
    The great tragedy is not so much the giveaway programs that dems love so much. The great tragedy is not even having the idea that money grows on trees, so we can spend, spend, spend and never have to exercise any discipline or restraint. We have passed 21 tril in federal debt with no slow down in sight. No, the great tragedy is that the American people have become so stupid that it does not bother us. Republicans and democrats alike, we are all content to sit around and worry about whether the NFL players are going to kneel again to protest an almost non-existent problem. It is going to catch up to us, and probably sooner rather than later. It is just amazing to me how we are throwing away what God has blessed us with. I would happily support a bill that makes it illegal for any congressman to propose spending without a corresponding means of paying for it, and as a penalty that person would be caned in public in front of the Washington Monument. That would stop it. Honestly, I think it would take that.
    paraclete's Avatar
    paraclete Posts: 2,705, Reputation: 172
    Ultra Member
     
    #580

    Oct 23, 2018, 05:47 AM
    What part of mortgaging your future don't you understand? You don't give to this generation you demand this generation work for its future and you provide the means by which they can work

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