[Allen Farber]

I don't get this. Can someone please explain this to me? From what I understand, Big Gov, Big Biz, & Military Industrial Complex (whatever that is) are giving into the demands of the liberals and are restricting other's rights. Yet, I don't know a real world example of that.

http://i.imgs.fyi/img/15ct.jpg

[talaniman]

That's a matter of perspective as the ones with the megaphones and power seem to be doing the bidding of the far right Social Justice Warriors. I submit voter suppression, gentrification, and the current political power structure as my examples.

[Allen Farber]

But aren't all those things against liberals? I'm asking for an example where the government, a big business, or the military did something to benefit liberals, as the message of this cartoon is indicating.

[talaniman]

Who did the cartoon? Look up the artist. What publication was the cartoon run in? That's how you get an understanding of what meaning they are trying to convey.

[Allen Farber]

Ben Garrison

[talaniman]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ben_Garrison

A Trump supporter and libertarian.

https://www.wired.com/story/ben-garr...ght-cartoonist

Right wingers are always hollering about one menace or another.

[ebaines]

The cartoonist is saying that the establishment is bending to so-called liberal demands to suppress free speech, right of assembly, right to bear arms, etc. Recent examples would include removing statues that commemorate the Confederacy, the suppression of free speech on college campuses, and protests against neo-Nazis, the KKK, and other extreme right groups. The argument here is that big business is happy to encourage such restrictions - consider for example the fellow who was fired from Google two weeks ago for writing a memo about the lack of females who have successful careers in tech, or the plea from some businesses to keep DACA. The "Military Industrial Complex" is an expression first used by Eisenhower back in 1960 to warn of the extreme power of the Defense Department in conjunction with large military contractors.

I had to look up what "SJW" means - it's social justice warrior.

[Allen Farber]

Thank you, this is probably the best answer I've gotten. But if you don't mind me asking, what is the military industrial complex doing to accommodate the liberal agenda?

[Allen Farber]

And one final question... so there was this guy who made a critique of this cartoon and I don't really understand the point he was trying to make. Now normally I wouldn't care, but it's part of a college course I'm taking. Basically, I have to find a political cartoon, describe its meaning, and then find a critique in favor of the cartoon and one against it, and then analyze it and interpret it. So here's what the guy wrote...

"The SJWs aren't the people complaining, the SJWs are the mouthpiece through which pissed off women and minorities and LGBTQ are shouting. The real enemy isn't the SJWs, who can be of any gender, it's the women who are complaining and wielding them against... somebody... or something... it's not clear since there are no actual people being restricted in the image.

I mean, the military industrial complex, Big Biz, and the government are all white men manipulating somebody, clearly. It's just... kind of hard to tell who the victim actually is in this image because they aren't being represented or shown as anyone in particular.

The irony is kind of incredible. The vast diversity of the world is shouting through a bunch of feckless figureheads at white patriarchy to control nothing, which says more about the people who think the image represents an embodied threat than anything else -- they are afraid of self-identifying because they know they are demographically aligned with the big scary people being shouted at and gladly conceding and there's no way to put themselves in the image without admitting that they are the power structure they're terrified of."

So I threw in the first 2 paragraphs just to give you context. What I'm really having trouble comprehending is the last paragraph. When he says "vast diversity of the world" is he talking about liberals or all sides of the political spectrum? And either way he says that they're "controlling nothing" now does he literally mean nothing, as it's really the government's say what happens and not theirs...or is he trying to say that they are influencing the government but what they're influencing isn't very important (such as statues, the bathroom bill, etc...) and he says that all this says more about people who think the cartoon represents a threat than anyone else. First, off who are the people who think the cartoon is threatening (if there is even a threat embodied in the comic) and how does the statement "the vast diversity of the world is shouting through a bunch of feckless figureheads at white patriarchy to control nothing" say more about them? And then what does he mean by "demographically aligned"? I always assumed that meant location but that makes no sense in this context.

Anyway, I'm sorry for asking so much. But I want to get as much help and input as I can get. Thank you in advance.

[ebaines]

I'll answer the "demographically aligned" comment. Here a "demographic" means a group that has some measure of cohesiveness based on a characteristic. It could mean location, yes, but more often people use the term to mean personal characteristics such as skin color, religion, sexual orientation, sex, age, and income level. I think the writer of the critique you quoted is saying that most people in the world are aligned with the big scary guys on the right. As for who the victim is in the image - the so-called victim here would be anyone not aligned either with the complainers on the left or the powers-that-be on the right, which would mean blue collar, middle class, conservative white males, who presumably are being attacked from both sides.

[Allen Farber]

Okay, thank you. But I thought the powers were in favor of the aforementioned victims (conservative white males and blue collar middle class people), which is why the left is complaining to them. However, I could be wrong, but thanks for your explanation and answer regardless :)

[talaniman]

That's the problem with opinions, even those of political cartoonist. Everybody has one whether they are accurate or not. That's why I gave you some background on the artist so you had something to consider the source with, and apply your own sense of credibility to him. No doubt many would agree, but many would not.

Where do you fall in this opinion of the cartoon.

[Allen Farber]

Well as far as I know, it showcases liberals yelling at the government to do something about the rights of others that offend them (free speech, right to bear arms, etc.) and the government is agreeing to help them do it. The part I'm confused about is whether they're actually going to do something about it or if they're just being sarcastic (which I initially thought due to how ominously they were drawn). So either the liberals are complaining to the government and the government is dismissing them, which would make no sense when the critique I posted above states that the liberals are the power structure they're terrified of... or the liberals are complaining to the government and the government is giving into their demands, which would make no sense in the same critique when it says the liberals are scared to admit they're the power structure. Why would they be ashamed to admit that they're aligned with the power structure if the power structure is liberal as well? So really, I don't know which way to interpret it but either way, there's contradictions in the explanation/critique.

[talaniman]

What are you, a liberal or conservative? What do you think of your government? Your country? Do you have a favorite politician? What kind of people do you like to hang out with? Do you involve yourself with any political people, issues, or causes? Just trying to help your understanding, by seeing how well you understand yourself.

I think our opinions are but an expression of our attitudes for the most part, so I ask those questions. Interested in your answers.

[Allen Farber]

I try to be as centrist as possible, but I lean towards more the left on a lot of issues. As of right now, I'm not all that into the government due to its current rightwing agenda, I tend to hang out with a lot of conservatives as well as liberals, and the most I involve myself in politics is probably watching political debates and political commentaries on YouTube. But regardless of what I think, I'm trying to figure out what the critic is thinking

[joypulv]

...it showcases liberals yelling at the government to do something about the rights of others that offend them (free speech, right to bear arms, etc.)....

Is that what you mean to say? Liberals are offended by free speech and the right to bear arms?

Eisenhower's MIC warning was big when I was in my 20s, in the 60s. A word used a lot was co-opted. American gov't was good at co-opting dissent by allowing just enough of it to make us all feel that we lived in a democratic country.

The MIC is bigger and badder than ever, IMO. Those medal laden generals of the DoD sitting there on their Halliburton encrusted asses don't feel accountable to anyone, and have been dragged on the carpet in years past for not even submitting their accounts to the GAO, nor even keeping reasonable records. They are so in bed with their contractors that they live in their own world.

[Allen Farber]

Well all the complaints about offensive rhetoric and needing gun regulation certainly aren't coming from the conservative side. But regardless, I don't see what the MIC "co-opting dissent" as you say has to do with the comic

[talaniman]

You can never totally figure out what's on someone else's mind, just try your best to interpret it. Trust me, you won't be graded on what's on his mind, but how well you articulate what you THINK he means. Anybody else's interpretation or understanding is there own. The whole point of the exercise is to think on your own, and form your own opinion and not be a sheep baaing like the other sheep.

In my opinion, the guy is crying about how powerful everybody else is (liberals) and how powerless he is (older middle class blue collar white man in a changing world). His social justice is to go back to when felt powerful, and HIS government catered to just him.

[joypulv]

Co-opting is all about those 3 iconic white men in suits, representing those who run this country. 'Sure,' they say, 'feel good about your protests, we don't mind.'
As long as it serves their interests, and you get to feel like you are making a difference, what do they care? You are placated and they keep right on doing what is good for them. That's co-opting.
It's the American way. It's democracy. It's phony as all get out, but it's the best we have.
Hopefully some of us do more than just see through it, and keep trying anyway.

[Allen Farber]

I'm not saying you're wrong or trying to argue against your position or anything, but what I don't get is when you say as long as the protests (or dissent) serves the government, big business, or MIC's interests, then they don't mind. I don't get how it would serve their interest if it's against their agenda and how would they co-opt (or utilize) said dissent without going against what they want? If the liberals/protesters are protesting and government doesn't do anything about it, wouldn't that make them more suspicious and not placated?