[excon]

Hello:

Clearly, there's (1) the ones that pay for EVERYTHING, and (2) ALL the rest..

After all, if it's NOT gonna pay for EVERYTHING, why have it, and WHO would buy it? What's clear again, if your policy WON'T pay for everything, you're gonna DIE in the street.. Am I wrong??

Look.. Would you be happy with a fire department that WON'T put out a fire in your garage? Or one that wouldn't put out a fire because you didn't pay your taxes??

SHOW me where I'm wrong..

excon

[ebaines]

No insurance policy pays for "everything." If you have a fire in your home your homeowner's policy pays for damage minus your deductible. And if in the fire you lose a precious piece of art work worth $1 million your homeowner's policy won't cover it. And if instead of a fire you have a flood your homeowner's insurance won't pay for that either. So no - insurance in general does not cover everything. Yes, the fire department will come to your house even if you are late on your taxes but in some municipalities they'll send you a bill afterwards - just as the hospital emergency room will take you even if you have no medical insurance and then will send you a bill. Of course if nobody pays their taxes the fire department will cease to exist, just as the hospital will cease to exist if nobody pays it.

[joypulv]

There are Supplemental Plans to Medicare that pay for every penny.
My parents had them, and I claim that as a consequence, they had doctors and drugs coming out their ears, and visiting nurses (including lots of people who weren't nurses) in and out the door.
Because they are expensive, I have the stingy person's version, an Advantage Plan, in addition to Medicare.
In fact, mine is free. It just covers very little. If I need a lot of medical care, I have to wait til the next Jan 1 to pay for more.

[tomder55]

People on Medicaid don't have their insurance pay for everything ...... and if you don't have the means ,then they park you in government run repositories ,giving you minimally adequate care until you croak . I've seen that scenario played out many times . The worse of them you had to bring your own mask with you to filter the smell of urine .

If you are a Vet dependent on government provided care your fate is only slightly better off .

As Joy points out ,Medicare doesn't come close to paying for everything .

So tell me again how this single payer stuff is such a better deal .

[talaniman]

For one Tom it cuts out the for profit middleman.

[tomder55]

That's the only case you have . So in return you get substandard care and long waiting lines .

[paraclete]

Boy you guys sure know how to live

[joypulv]

You talkin to ME? I know how to not go to doctors or take drugs, knock on wood.
I have tons of aches and HBP but that's about it.
Just wish I had Medical Mar. Instead of Medical MAW

[tomder55]

Clete even your socialized system is 2 tierd for those who can pay for extra care and those who can't .

Joy the point was that Medicare by itself ,without the supplemental insurance is inadequate .

[joypulv]

Tomder, I learned the cold reality of Medicare by itself, 5 years ago. I was one of those pathetic fools who thought it covered 80% of everything.

My response was directed at paraclete.

[paraclete]

Tom, I don't know what it is with your nation, but you seem to complicate everything, nothing could be more indicative of this than your health care system, it truly is a horse designed by a committee, a many humped camel. Everyone in this country is entitled to a level of care, if you want elective surgery sooner, or a private room, then you need health insurance or a fat wallet. About 80% of visits to a medical practitioner are what we called bulk billed, in other words at no cost. Our doctors don't seem to have a problem with allowing the government to pay their fee

[tomder55]

here is another great example of Government run health care in the US

Couple laments heartbreaking scene at Durham VA hospital | abc11.com

[joypulv]

The medical maw is a mess and I leave it to you young'uns to sort out. Just shoot me.

[Athos]

I was one of those pathetic fools who thought it covered 80% of everything.

J - I thought Medicare DID cover 80% (less deductible). Or do you mean things it doesn't cover at all - like dental?

Also, what is Medicare MAW?

[Athos]

If you are a Vet dependent on government provided care your fate is only slightly better off

I'm a vet and had major surgery in a VA hospital. The treatment, from orderly to surgeon, was superb. Also, the place was spotless. My stay was six days as an in-patient and two follow-ups as an out-patient.

[tomder55]

So then are you denying the many reports that have come out lately about the poor treatment that Vets are getting at VA hospitals across the country ? Francis Rose at Federal News Radio has been reporting extensively about them for at least the 2 years I've listened to his podcasts .

[talaniman]

I don't think you can evaluate the VA by all the negatives, and ignore the vast positives that the VA does. The vets in my family don't mind telling anyone how great their experience was, but in every human endeavor there is always room for improvement.

[tomder55]

ok how many years do you want me to go back ? a decade ? two ?


2001 -the GAO finds that veterans still often wait more than two months for appointments.
2003 -- A commission appointed by President George W. Bush reports 236,000 veterans had been waiting six months or more for initial or follow-up visits.


2005 -- An anonymous tip leads to revelations of "significant problems with the quality of care" for surgical patients at the VA's Salisbury, North Carolina, hospital, according to congressional testimony. One veteran who sought treatment for a toenail injury died of heart failure after doctors failed to take account of his enlarged heart, according to testimony.

2006 -- Sensitive records containing the names, Social Security numbers and birth dates of 26.5 million veterans are stolen from the home of a VA employee who did not have authority to take the materials.

2007 -- senior VA officials received bonuses of up to $33,000 despite a backlog of hundreds of thousands of benefits cases and an internal review that found numerous problems, some of them critical, at VA facilities across the nation.

2009 -- The VA discloses that than 10,000 veterans who underwent colonoscopies in Tennessee, Georgia and Florida were exposed to potential viral infections due to poorly disinfected equipment. Thirty-seven tested positive for two forms of hepatitis and six tested positive for HIV.

2011 -- Nine Ohio veterans test positive for hepatitis after routine dental work at a VA clinic in Dayton, Ohio. A dentist at the VA medical center there acknowledged not washing his hands or even changing gloves between patients for 18 years.

2011 -- An outbreak of Legionnaires' Disease begins at the VA hospital in Oakland, Pennsylvania .At least five veterans die of the disease over the next two years. In 2013, the newspaper discloses VA records showed evidence of widespread contamination of the facility dating back to 2007.

2012 -- The VA finds that the graves of at least 120 veterans in agency-run cemeteries are misidentified. The audit comes in the wake of a scandal at the Army's Arlington National Cemetery involving unmarked graves and incorrectly placed burials.

2013 -- The former director of Veteran Affairs facilities in Ohio, William Montague, is indicted on charges he took bribes and kickbacks to steer VA contracts to a company that does business with the agency.


January 2014 -- CNN reports that at least 19 veterans died at VA hospitals in 2010 and 2011 because of delays in diagnosis and treatment.

Then there is the Phoenix facility and all the reporting from 2014

At least 40 veterans died while waiting for appointments to see a doctor at the Phoenix Veterans Affairs Health Care system, CNN reports. The patients were on a secret list designed to hide lengthy delays from VA officials in Washington, according to a recently retired VA doctor and several high-level sources..
VA boss General Shinseki places the director of the Phoenix VA and two aides on administrative leave pending the investigation into the veterans' deaths.

American Legion National Commander Daniel Dillinger says the deaths reported by CNN appear to be part of a "pattern of scandals that has infected the entire system."

The House Veterans Affairs Committee votes to subpoena Shinseki and others in relation to the Phoenix scandal.

A Cheyenne, Wyoming, VA employee is placed on administrative leave after an email surfaces in which the employee discusses "gaming the system a bit" to manipulate waiting times. The suspension comes a day after a scheduling clerk in San Antonio admitted to "cooking the books" to shorten apparent waiting times. Three days later, two employees in Durham, North Carolina, are placed on leave over similar allegations.


Three supervisors at the Gainesville, Florida, VA hospital are placed on paid leave after investigators find a list of patients requiring follow-up care kept on paper, not in the VA's computerized scheduling system.

Shinseki rescinds Phoenix VA director Sharon Helman's $8,495 bonus. Helman got the bonus in April, even as agency investigators were looking into allegations at the facility.

The chairman of the House Veteran Affairs Committee says his group has received information "that will make what has already come out look like kindergarten stuff."

A preliminary report from the VA inspector general's office finds systemic problems at health facilities nationwide, and serious management and scheduling issues in Phoenix.
The emperor accepts Eric Shinseki's resignation.


W.H. report: VA's 'corrosive culture' - POLITICO

Did that end the problems ? No . Here are some headlines from 2016 .

Veteran Burned Himself Alive outside VA Clinic

Dead veterans canceling their own appointments?

VA wait-times still manipulated, whistleblowers say

Report Finds Sharp Increase in Veterans Denied V.A. Benefits,

More than 125,000 U.S. veterans are being denied crucial mental health services..

And it goes on and on .I can find many more examples like the ones I've posted recently . IS it a matter of funding and staffing ? Nope .the VA has the second-largest budget in the federal government ($160-plus billion) and a workforce twice the size of the Marine Corps (340,000-plus employees).

And this is only government run care for Veterans . Imagine how much more chaotic and inefficient it would be when you added 250 million Americans on to the plan.

[excon]

Hello again, tom:

I DON'T think your concern is for the VETS.. I think it's more about "government run healthcare".. I say that because you don't seem to be too concerned with the MILLIONS who gained health insurance with the ACA, and are about to LOSE it because of Trump.. Certainly, WHATEVER healthcare vets get is BETTER than getting BUPKIS.

So, as BAD as government run healthcare IS, it's BETTER than the country going bankrupt over it.. I dunno bout you, but the SUREST sign that our healthcare system is BROKEN is the perpetual advertisement of prescription drugs.. I CAN'T believe you love that crap any better than I do..

Now, if there wasn't a PLAN on the table that'll SAVE us from bankruptcy, I'd STICK with what we've got.. But, there IS a better plan.. And, it's NOT as though those plans haven't been tried either.. They HAVE, and with GREAT success. And, I mean MEASURABLE success too, not just anecdotal.. Will the insurance company CEO'S make zillions? NO! Will the pharmaceutical CEO'S make zillions? NO!

But, as long as we're talking anecdotes, here's mine.. BEFORE I was eligible for Medicare, I PAID for ALL my healthcare out of my pocket.. AFTER the government "TOOK OVER" my health care, I didn't MISS a beat.. Only NOW, the government writes the check instead of me. I dunno WHY it can't be that way for everybody. In fact, it CAN be..

excon

[tomder55]

Oh I very much care about Vets That is why I am an advocate of giving them vouchers so they can find health care from a provider that gives a rats about them .