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    tomder55's Avatar
    tomder55 Posts: 1,742, Reputation: 346
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    #21

    Jan 30, 2017, 08:57 AM
    There are many other Muslim dominant nations where the restrictions don't apply .So if herr Donald wanted a ban on all Muslims ,he did not create one.
    talaniman's Avatar
    talaniman Posts: 54,327, Reputation: 10855
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    #22

    Jan 30, 2017, 09:26 AM
    That's a bunch of whooey Tom, unless he has actionable intelligence, or high probability of an imminent threat like Obama had when he ordered his ban. Further the fact that the fool actually carved out a preference exempting Christians goes to the point of his intent to ban certain Muslims even though there has been no history of an ACTUAL threat being carried out.

    Giuliani has come out and said he was tasked with crafting a Muslim ban legal, and the Donald in a rush to have his photo op for his peeps never vetted his EO with his own lawyers or his intelligence community, or security organizations. A rushed sloppy job from an inexperienced impulsive ego driven lying fascist who thinks he can do anything his way and forgo the process and rule of law.

    So if you believe this ban against Muslims who have never harmed us here at home and ignores those that have and our own loonies, then enjoy your false security while it lasts. I find it troubling you so easily believe one who lies habitually and exaggerates facts and exploits fear to justify his own gain.

    SAD!!
    tomder55's Avatar
    tomder55 Posts: 1,742, Reputation: 346
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    #23

    Jan 30, 2017, 09:47 AM
    Christians in those countries should get special consideration . Do you deny they are being persecuted more than anyone else in those nations ? They can't even go to refugee camps without being attacked .

    I don't care what you think Trump's intent was . The fact is that this is NOT a Muslim ban . If you read the EO it clearly is not a Muslim ban .
    smoothy's Avatar
    smoothy Posts: 25,492, Reputation: 2853
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    #24

    Jan 30, 2017, 10:42 AM
    For those that think there ARE no laws on the books about illegals...


    U.S. Attorneys » Resources » U.S. Attorneys' Manual » Criminal Resource Manual » CRM 1500-1999 » Criminal Resource Manual 1901-1999
    1907. Title 8, U.S.C. 1324(a) Offense
    Title
    8, U.S.C. § 1324(a) defines several distinct offenses related to
    Aliens. Subsection 1324(a)(1)(I)-(v) prohibits alien smuggling, domestic
    Transportation of unauthorized aliens, concealing or harboring
    Unauthorized aliens, encouraging or inducing unauthorized aliens to
    Enter the United States, and engaging in a conspiracy or aiding and
    Abetting any of the preceding acts. Subsection 1324(a)(2) prohibits
    Bringing or attempting to bring unauthorized aliens to the United States
    In any manner whatsoever, even at a designated port of entry.

    Subsection 1324(a)(3).
    Alien Smuggling -- Subsection 1324(a)(1)(A)(I) makes it an offense
    For any person who -- knowing that a person is an alien, to bring to or
    Attempts to bring to the United States in any manner whatsoever such
    Person at a place other than a designated port of entry or place other
    Than as designated by the Commissioner, regardless of whether such alien
    Has received prior official authorization to come to, enter, or reside
    In the United States and regardless of any future official action which
    May be taken with respect to such alien.

    Domestic Transporting -- Subsection 1324(a)(1)(A)(ii) makes it an
    Offense for any person who -- knowing or in reckless disregard of the
    Fact that an alien has come to, entered, or remains in the United States
    In violation of law, transports, or moves or attempts to transport or
    Move such alien within the United States by means of transportation or
    Otherwise, in furtherance of such violation of law.

    Harboring -- Subsection 1324(a)(1)(A)(iii) makes it an offense for
    Any person who -- knowing or in reckless disregard of the fact that an
    Alien has come to, entered, or remains in the United States in violation
    Of law, conceals harbors, or shields from detection, or attempts to
    Conceal, harbor, or shield from detection, such alien in any place,
    Including any building or any means of transportation.

    Encouraging/Inducing -- Subsection 1324(a)(1)(A)(iv) makes it an
    Offense for any person who -- encourages or induces an alien to come to,
    Enter, or reside in the United States, knowing or in reckless disregard
    Of the fact that such coming to, entry, or residence is or will be in
    violation of law.

    Conspiracy/Aiding or Abetting -- Subsection 1324(a)(1)(A)(v)
    Expressly makes it an offense to engage in a conspiracy to commit or aid
    Or abet the commission of the foregoing offenses.

    Bringing Aliens to the United States -- Subsection 1324(a)(2) makes
    It an offense for any person who -- knowing or in reckless disregard of
    The fact that an alien has not received prior authorization to come to,
    Enter, or reside in the United States, to bring to or attempts to bring
    To the United States in any manner whatsoever, such alien, regardless of
    Any official action which may later be taken with respect to such
    Alien.
    The Illegal Immigration Reform and Immigrant Responsibility Act
    (IIRIRA), enacted on September 30, 1996, added a new 8 U.S.C. §
    1324(a)(3)(A) which makes it an offense for any person, during any
    12-month period, to knowingly hire at least 10 individuals with actual
    Knowledge that these individuals are unauthorized aliens. See this Manual at 1908 (unlawful employment of aliens).
    Unit of Prosecution -- With regard to offenses defined in subsections
    1324(a)(1)(A)(I)-(v), (alien smuggling, domestic transporting,
    Harboring, encouraging/inducing, or conspiracy/aiding or abetting) each
    Alien with respect to whom a violation occurs constitutes a unit of
    Prosecution. Prior to enactment of the IIRIRA, the unit of prosecution
    For violations of 8 U.S.C. § 1324(a)(2) was each transaction, regardless
    Of the number of aliens involved. However, the unit of prosecution is
    Now based on each alien in respect to whom a violation occurs.

    Knowledge -- Prosecutions for alien smuggling, 8 U.S.C. §
    1324(a)(1)(A)(I) require proof that defendant knew that the person
    Brought to the United States was an alien. With regard to the other
    violations in 8 U.S.C. § 1324(a), proof of knowledge or reckless
    Disregard of alienage is sufficient.
    Penalties -- The basic statutory maximum penalty for violating 8
    U.S.C. § 1324(a)(1)(I) and (v)(I) (alien smuggling and conspiracy) is a
    Fine under title 18, imprisonment for not more than 10 years, or both.
    With regard to violations of 8 U.S.C. § 1324(a)(1)(ii)-(iv) and (v)(ii),
    Domestic transportation, harboring, encouraging/inducing, or
    Aiding/abetting, the basic statutory maximum term of imprisonment is 5
    Years, unless the offense was committed for commercial advantage or
    Private financial gain, in which case the maximum term of imprisonment
    Is 10 years. In addition, significant enhanced penalties are provided
    For in violations of 8 U.S.C. § 1324(a)(1) involving serious bodily
    Injury or placing life in jeopardy. Moreover, if the violation results
    In the death of any person, the defendant may be punished by death or by
    Imprisonment for any term of years. The basic penalty for a violation
    Of subsection 1324(a)(2) is a fine under title 18, imprisonment for not
    More than one year, or both, 8 U.S.C. § 1324(a)(2)(A). Enhanced
    Penalties are provided for violations involving bringing in criminal
    Aliens, 8 U.S.C. § 1324(a)(2)(B)(I), offenses done for commercial
    Advantage or private financial gain, 8 U.S.C. § 1324(a)(2)(B)(ii), and
    violations where the alien is not presented to an immigration officer
    Immediately upon arrival, 8 U.S.C. § 1324(a)(2)(B)(iii). A mandatory
    Minimum three year term of imprisonment applies to first or second
    violations of § 1324(a)(2)(B)(I) or (B)(ii). Further enhanced punishment
    Is provided for third or subsequent offenses.

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