[Alty]

Forgive me if I give too much, or too little info.

Long story short, my Uncle in Germany died. The house he and two of his sisters lived in, belongs to all the siblings. Since my mother is dead, her share goes to me.

The house has been sold, but apparently the deal cannot be finalized until I provide a certificate of inheritance showing that I'm the only heir to my parents estate.

My parents died in 2001. I'm an only child, so the lawyer said we didn't need to probate the will since I was the only one listed in the will to inherit, and I was the executor of the will.

Here's the thing. My mom lived in Canada since 1971, but she died 3 days into visiting Germany to say good bye to her family. She did not live in Germany, but she died there, and she was a German citizen, so now the notary is saying I need:

"In Germany a proof of inheritance is required and they have to apply for a certificate of inheritance. Please provide the land register as well as the testament;"

My parents died in 2001. Isn't it a little late to probate the will? Can I get a certificate of inheritance without probating the will? Also, what the hell is the land register and testament?

They need this asap. Love how every time they need something from me the email me 2 hours before they need it.

Is there anyone that can tell me what I have to do, where I have to go?

The notary mentioned that I'd have to go to the German consulat. Sadly Google translate wasn't very good, so it made it hard to understand. I do speak and read German, but not lawyer German.

Anyone have any advice?

[ScottGem]

Can you contact the nearest consulate in Canada?

What about the lawyer who handled their will?

Is the inheritance significant enough?

[talaniman]

As a matter of course CONSULT with a lawyer, and at least get the facts to guide you through this legal hodpodge of international legalities... at least you will understand the COST of what you face to balance the potential gains. You wouldn't fly a plane without a pilot would you?

Been in your shoes and always had a lawyer, because simple fact is your relatives do don't they?

[joypulv]

Wow, you are in deeper doo doo than I thought (and was sort of joking about). I apologize!
I'd get a quote from a German lawyer. Maybe this one. I've seen legal costs be less than the court costs just because lawyers can pull strings to get around the costs and earn it for themselves, and do it all much faster.

[Alty]

Thanks everyone. Sadly I didn't get the email the German lawyer sent, until yesterday. It's the weekend, so all offices I need to contact, are closed. I sent an email to the German consulate in Edmonton, and hope they get back to me on Monday. I called and emailed the lawyer that handled my moms will and estate, and hopefully I'll also hear from him on Monday.

The thing is, the buyer that already bought the house in Germany, is impatient to start working on the house (it's a 300 year old house, he's a contractor, and he has big plans for it and would like to start work on it immediately). He can't get the title until I prove that I'm one of the title holders, which means that I first have to prove that I inherited that title from my mother when she died. Hope that makes sense.

I sent a copy of the will on the 9th of January, because I don't have a certificate of inheritance since the will was never probated as per the advice of the lawyer back in 2001 when she died. He said we didn't have to spend the time and money to probate because I'm an only child, and the only one listed on the will. When I sent a copy of the will to the German lawyer on the 9th, I asked if this was enough, and if not, let me know so I could start the process of getting what he needs. He never replied, so I figured it was a done deal, since the sale of the house went through on the 11th of January. Now, suddenly, over 2 weeks later, they need more, and they need things I told them I don't have, and they need it yesterday or the buyer can legally pull out of the deal. Now I'm fine with that, I can wait, but I'm not the only one that owns part of this house. All my living Aunts and Uncle's in Germany also own portions of this house. So if the deal falls through, not only do I not get my share of the inheritance, neither do they. Also, very shocked that they found a buyer that quickly, it's a small town, an old town, an old house. If this deal falls through it could take years to find another buyer, and it would be all on me just because I didn't see 16 years into the future and realize this would be an issue.

Very very stressed right now. Canadian car insurance I know. Some small legal issues I know. This is more than I can handle. I'm now dealing with Canadian law, and German law, and a lot of red tape.

[tickle]

Wow, you are in deeper doo doo than I thought (and was sort of joking about). I apologize!
I'd get a quote from a German lawyer. Maybe this one. I've seen legal costs be less than the court costs just because lawyers can pull strings to get around the costs and earn it for themselves, and do it all much faster.

.
Why would a quote from a German lawyer be beneficial? A German lawyer would know nothing about Canadian inheritance property law. Alty's best bet is the German consulate in Alberta, to guide her.

[Alty]

Just to keep everyone posted, and for anyone else that has a situation like mine.

Finally got in to see the lawyer at the German Consulate today. The process of getting a certificate of inheritance for a property in Germany, is not going to be easy.

The will not being probated isn't a problem. The problem is that the consulate in Alberta cannot help me with this. I would have to fill out paperwork, file it in Toronto (and I'd have to be in Toronto to file it). Then it's reviewed (which can take 6 months to a year) then I have to fly back to Toronto to sign the paperwork.

A quicker way would be for me to fly to Germany, but even then it won't be quick. It's still going to take at least 6 months once the process is started. No way the new buyer is going to wait that long, and I don't blame him.

I have no idea what we're going to do. We can't afford for me to fly to Toronto twice (at the least), and even if I could afford to fly to Germany, my passport is expired, and to get a new one will take 4-5 months.

This is insane. Now I have to tell me family in Germany the horrible news. Sadly this is out of my hands. There's nothing I can do to speed up this process.

I can't help thinking that if they had sold the house while my mom was still alive, this wouldn't be an issue. Or, if they had paid out my mom's share when she asked, this wouldn't be a problem. Now it's a big problem, and they want everything rush rush rush, and it simply can't be rushed.

I have no idea what to do now.

[tickle]

Will your share of the proceeds eat up all the expenses you have to endure to get it done ? Think of it that way. Our dollar, Alty, is depreciating and I don't think the german mark is any better.

Just looked up the exchange rate, so for $100 CDN you get 139.00 German Marks. So, 40c on the dollar. And that will be changing daily depending on Trumps sanctions.

[Alty]

Frankly I don't know what my share of the proceeds are or how much it will cost me to get all of this done. I get what you're saying Tickle, and I agree. Frankly I'm in no hurry to sell the house. I've been co-owner of it for 16 years while my Aunts and Uncle lived in it. I didn't pressure them to sell because I didn't mind waiting until they were ready to move. Now they're ready and it sold very quickly, and no one told me about all the paperwork I'd need to have in order for this house to sell, and none of them realize how hard it's going to be for me to get this paperwork, and how long it's going to take to get it.

I'm only 1/10 owner of this property, and the other 9 people that share ownership, want it sold, sold it, and now want the money from the sale, and the sale can't go through legally until I get the certificate of inheritance that has to be issued in Germany, or the German consulate in Toronto, and will take 6 months to a year to obtain.

In other words, the only reason they can't sell the house right now to the seller that already bought it (but can back out of the deal if I can't produce the certificate of inheritance in a timely manner) is because of me. Well, not really me, because this isn't my fault at all, but still, the hold up is because I'm part owner and I'm in Canada, and because my mom died and I inherited, and they need paperwork I don't have and can't easily get.

Now I'm just babbling. It's been a very long, very stressful, very emotional day.

[teacherjenn4]

Sorry, Alty. It's a shame that no one told you about it in advance. How would you know the details of German wills and paperwork? I hope things get better soon. You've done all you can, and I hope your family understands this.

[talaniman]

Relax, they had 16 years to get their ducks in a row and didn't, so how is this your fault they waited until the last minute?

[smoothy]

I'm with the others... they popped this on you at the last minute, its on them.. not you.

[Alty]

Thanks everyone. I've made the same argument, that as soon as my mom died they should have looked into what it will take to sell the house with me as my mothers heir. Then again, I know they didn't realize it would be this difficult. This goes way beyond simply selling a home in Germany, this is all because I'm an heir and I'm in Canada, and I'm the heir of the original heir named in the will. If my mom were alive this wouldn't be an issue at all, because she's the original heir in my grandparents will. There's really no way they could have known that it would be this hard, neither did I. It's one of those laws that unless you've been through it, you really don't know about it.

Still, it's been 16 years since my mom died that 3 of the 9 remaining siblings lived in that house while the other heirs waited for them to decide to move and sell so the inheritance could be split amongst the heirs. Not everyone was happy with that decision. When my Oma died my mom actually wrote a letter asking them to give her her share of the estate now, because at that time she had cancer and was undergoing some trial medications that were costing $5000 a month. The money would have come in handy. But they didn't take her up on it. If they had, she would have been removed as one of the owners of the home because she'd been bought out, and then we wouldn't be going through all of this right now. Twenty twenty hindsight.

I'm doing my best to resolve this, but it's not going to be quick, it's definitely not going to be easy, and it's not going to be cheap. I feel for them, now that they're ready to sell and found a buyer, they want it done and over with. But there's simply nothing I can do to speed up the legal process, it's out of my hands. I can do everything I have to to make this happen, but in the end it's up to the German consulate, and it's up to the lawyers, and it's out of my hands. The worst part right now is getting all the documents the Consulate in Toronto needs so I can get this all started. Then we'll have to wait, see and hope that someone comes up with a solution that won't cost me an arm and a leg traveling back and forth. But either way they're looking at at least 6 months, more likely a year, before they get the certificate of inheritance, which means that this sale won't be going through, the buyer will back out, and frankly, that's not at all my fault.

[Wondergirl]

When my Oma died my mom actually wrote a letter asking them to give her her share of the estate now

Can you do something like that now, have the other heirs eventually give you a predetermined cut or percentage of their parts of the proceeds if you sign a quitclaim deed?

[Alty]

I'm looking into that WG. I'm not sure if that's an option. When I was at the Consulate yesterday the man ahead of me in line asked if I could read German, since there was a long line and he didn't want to wait. I looked at his letter, he inherited land in Germany from an Uncle. I told him what it said. He asked me if I knew if he could just deny the inheritance. I didn't know. The consulate is a small hallway, a room to the left and a room to the right, two people working. The lady at the desk can help with most matters. Since the place is so small, when the man went in to the office I heard what he was told, and he was told that yes, he can deny the inheritance. But not sure what that means.

Also, he inherited it directly. He's not the heir of an heir that inherited. If that makes sense.

I'm waiting to hear back from the German lawyer I contacted yesterday, and one of my questions was if I could deny the inheritance and if that would help, then they wouldn't need me for the sale of the house, and I know they'd still give me my share. Sadly, from a strictly legal viewpoint, I think that in order to deny the inheritance I would still have to prove that it's mine to deny, and that's the main problem here, proving that it's mine. But we'll see what the lawyer says. Maybe this would be easier. :)

[Alty]

I just received a return email from the German lawyer I found online. He has, of course, agreed to help. He wants a retainer (he didn't state how much), and a percentage of the inheritance (didn't state what percentage), and then other legal fees. He wants all the documents in my possession and all the documents in every one of my Aunt's and Uncles (there are 8 living all heirs) possession, the names and information of their lawyers, and possibly the kidney of my first born. In other words, he wants the world for help getting one little certificate. I'm thinking, NO!

I've talked to a friend, and listened to everything all of you have said, and I've come to a decision. I'm going to try and deny the inheritance. To me it's not about the money I'd get, although it would be nice, would help pay a lot of bills, get the kids in to a dentist, get caught up on our property taxes, go camping a few times this summer. But I don't have the money, and if I don't get it, I'll live. It's not at all about my getting my portion, it's about making sure my Aunt's and Uncle's can get theirs, and frankly, I don't know why I'm bending over backwards and worrying myself sick to help them. I can't spend money I don't have to get this done. I can't travel all over to get this done. I won't put my family in jeopardy to get this done.

So I'm going to do some research on how to deny the inheritance, and hope that works. If it doesn't, then, well, sadly I have to walk away, which means that my entire family in Germany will never talk to me again, and the house my Oma and Opa lived in, that I love, that I dream about, that I will miss, will sit there, empty, rotting, never being able to be sold. But I really don't see any other option. I simply cannot do what they're asking me to do, especially because in all of this, they never once even told me what the house sold for, or what my portion of the inheritance is, and yet expect me to spend thousands of dollars I don't have, so they can get this done? They should have done it when my Oma died! They should have bought my mom out when she asked them to. They didn't care then about making everyone wait for their share, but now that they've moved, they want the money. Well, maybe this time they'll have to wait, or not get it at all.

Ya, I'm fed up. Can you tell?

[cdad]

Here is a link that explains some of it.
Will in Germany | German Will | Inheritance Tax Laws