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    smoothy's Avatar
    smoothy Posts: 25,492, Reputation: 2853
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    #21

    Jan 28, 2017, 08:10 PM
    The left wouldn't believe the facts if they saw video of it being done...

    Its been proven 140 localities have more registered voters than Adults of legal voting age living in them... elected officials have been CAUGHT voting illegally in multiple states...

    Anyone that actually believes there are ZERO illegal votes cast are the ones out of touch with reality.
    Athos's Avatar
    Athos Posts: 1,108, Reputation: 55
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    #22

    Jan 29, 2017, 02:39 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by smoothy View Post
    The left wouldn't believe the facts if they saw video of it being done...

    Its been proven 140 localities have more registered voters than Adults of legal voting age living in them... elected officials have been CAUGHT voting illegally in multiple states...

    Anyone that actually believes there are ZERO illegal votes cast are the ones out of touch with reality.
    Smoothy - try to keep up, will you?

    OF COURSE, there are more registered voters than actual voters. People die and are not removed from the rolls. People move and are not removed from the rolls.

    NOBODY claims there are NO illegal votes. At issue is Trump's claim that there are 3 to 5 MILLION illegal votes. HIs claim is preposterous.
    ScottGem's Avatar
    ScottGem Posts: 64,966, Reputation: 6056
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    #23

    Jan 29, 2017, 03:55 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by smoothy View Post
    The left wouldn't believe the facts if they saw video of it being done...

    Its been proven 140 localities have more registered voters than Adults of legal voting age living in them... elected officials have been CAUGHT voting illegally in multiple states...

    Anyone that actually believes there are ZERO illegal votes cast are the ones out of touch with reality.
    There is a clear need for voter registration reform. Election boards don't clean up their rolls for a variety of reasons. They don't link to death records, people who move are not required to report to them, plus it costs money to maintain the rolls. It was reported that members of Trump's family and staff were registered in multiple places.

    But as Athos points out, Voter registration issues does not equate to voter fraud. Especially on the scale Trump lies about. Just because Uncle Fred died 5 years ago and is still listed on the rolls doesn't mean Uncle Fred voted! Or just because Aunt Minnie is listed on rolls in Oshkosh Wi and Ottumwa IA because she moved 6 years ago and Oshkosh hasn't removed her, doesn't mean she voted in both places.
    tomder55's Avatar
    tomder55 Posts: 1,742, Reputation: 346
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    #24

    Jan 29, 2017, 04:57 AM
    From his manifesto 'The Art of the Deal ' (Trump 2004) :
    One thing I’ve learned about the press is that they’re always hungry for a good story, and the more sensational the better. It’s in the nature of the job, and I understand that. The point is that if you are a little different, or a little outrageous, or if you do things that are bold or controversial, the press is going to write about you. I’ve always done things a little differently, I don’t mind controversy, and my deals tend to be somewhat ambitious. Also, I achieved a lot when I was very young, and I chose to live in a certain style. The result is that the press has always wanted to write about me.
    Even bad coverage is still good
    I’m not saying that [journalists] necessarily like me. Sometimes they write positively, and sometimes they write negatively. But from a pure business point of view, the benefits of being written about have far outweighed the drawbacks. It’s really quite simple. If I take a full-page ad in the New York Times to publicize a project, it might cost $40,000, and in any case, people tend to be skeptical about advertising. But if the New York Times writes even a moderately positive one-column story about one of my deals, it doesn’t cost me anything, and it’s worth a lot more than $40,000.
    The funny thing is that even a critical story, which may be hurtful personally, can be very valuable to your business. Television City is a perfect example. When I bought the land in 1985, many people, even those on the West Side, didn’t realize that those one hundred acres existed. Then I announced I was going to build the world’s tallest building on the site. Instantly, it became a media event: the New York Times put it on the front page, Dan Rather announced it on the evening news, and George Will wrote a column about it in Newsweek. Every architecture critic had an opinion, and so did a lot of editorial writers. Not all of them liked the idea of the world’s tallest building. But the point is that we got a lot of attention, and that alone creates value. . . .
    Most reporters, I find, have very little interest in exploring the substance of a detailed proposal for a development. They look instead for the sensational angle.
    Don’t lie — but use misdirection

    The other thing I do when I talk with reporters is to be straight. I try not to deceive them or to be defensive, because those are precisely the ways most people get themselves into trouble with the press. Instead, when a reporter asks me a tough question, I try to frame a positive answer, even if that means shifting the ground. For example, if someone asks me what negative effects the world’s tallest building might have on the West Side, I turn the tables and talk about how New Yorkers deserve the world’s tallest building, and what a boost it will give the city to have that honor again. When a reporter asks why I build only for the rich, I note that the rich aren’t the only ones who benefit from my buildings. I explain that I put thousands of people to work who might otherwise be collecting unemployment, and that I add to the city’s tax base every time I build a new project. I also point out that buildings like Trump Tower have helped spark New York’s renaissance.
    The final key to the way I promote is bravado. I play to people’s fantasies. People may not always think big themselves, but they can still get very excited by those who do. That’s why a little hyperbole never hurts. People want to believe that something is the biggest and the greatest and the most spectacular.
    I call it truthful hyperbole. It’s an innocent form of exaggeration — and a very effective form of promotion.
    ScottGem's Avatar
    ScottGem Posts: 64,966, Reputation: 6056
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    #25

    Jan 29, 2017, 05:36 AM
    Easy enough to say, but apparently not to practice, evidenced by his many outright lies. But he tries. In his interview with Muir, there was a lot of misdirection and hyperbole, but also many outright lies.
    excon's Avatar
    excon Posts: 21,482, Reputation: 2992
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    #26

    Jan 29, 2017, 08:03 AM
    Hello again, tom:

    When you're the CEO, you can DO that stuff.. When you're NOT, you CAN'T..

    The problem with being a CEO, is that when people BEND to your every wish, you BEGIN to think it's because of your leadership qualities, when in truth, people simply fear for their jobs.

    excon
    --------------------------------------

    Hello again:

    It's time to make voting a RIGHT, and be DONE with all this crap.

    excon
    -----------------------

    Hello again,

    I TRIED to make the above TWO posts SEPARATE, but the software won't let me.. Maybe they're trying to save disk space..

    excon
    talaniman's Avatar
    talaniman Posts: 54,327, Reputation: 10855
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    #27

    Jan 29, 2017, 09:19 AM
    Good morning Ex,

    What makes you think Repubs care about YOUR right to vote? They never have before. Expect them to care even less tomorrow.

    PS

    Just because he is the elected president doesn't mean The Donald won't act like a CEO.
    tomder55's Avatar
    tomder55 Posts: 1,742, Reputation: 346
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    #28

    Jan 29, 2017, 10:05 AM
    no restrictions for anyone ? Age ? non-citizen ?

    I quoted his book because that is the closest thing to a Trump manifesto as you're going to get . It's like reading Obama's 'Dreams from my father ' ;you get insight into his thinking . Specifically ,he considers exaggerations and hyperbole legitimate tools above telling absolute truth .
    Athos's Avatar
    Athos Posts: 1,108, Reputation: 55
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    #29

    Jan 29, 2017, 10:21 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by excon View Post
    The problem with being a CEO, is that when people BEND to your every wish, you BEGIN to think it's because of your leadership qualities, when in truth, people simply fear for their jobs.

    EXCELLENT insight into how we humans think and our tendency to congratulate ourselves when, in reality, we are deceiving ourselves.

    Having said that, I must also say how accurate Tomder's long quote from Trump's book is. Trump is right about the press and publicity. He left out one important thing - in addition to truthful hyperbole, there is also the LIE. Trump excels in this area - he tells whoppers without the slightest shame. A mark of the clinical narcissist and the sociopath.


    And - universalizing the Holocaust ("so many innocent victims") without specifying somewhere in his remembrance the fact of the Final Solution and the genocide against the Jews is taken right from the anti-semitic playbook of his chief advisor Steve Bannon.
    talaniman's Avatar
    talaniman Posts: 54,327, Reputation: 10855
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    #30

    Jan 29, 2017, 12:54 PM
    As much as the fear card is played by Trump using out and out lies one doesn't have to wonder who he is playing to, the uninformed, the desperate, and the downright right wing loonies fringe.
    smoothy's Avatar
    smoothy Posts: 25,492, Reputation: 2853
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    #31

    Jan 29, 2017, 03:31 PM
    WHere there is smoke there is fire.

    If you find proof of a crime, there is NO statistical evidence or other wise to back those were the ONLY crimes happening.

    Like cockroaches...you might see 10 roaches...but those are NEVER the only 10. It's always just the tip of the iceberg..

    That is why the liberals are against voter ID requirements....its because they work. And every other country in the world uses them. No government ID..then you don't get to vote...it IS that simple. .


    ANALYSIS/OPINION:
    As Donald Trump takes on the Republican establishment, Democrats and the mainstream media, he’s telling supporters they’re fighting against a “rigged” system, rife with voter fraud and those eager to protect the status quo. The left, predictably, says this type of talk is “dangerous” to the integrity of our electoral system, and then glibly asks for Mr. Trump to prove his voter fraud allegations.
    This is where the left is wrong: The argument isn’t whether voter fraud is real, but how widespread it is. Here’s 10 examples documenting that voter fraud isn’t a myth and how Mr. Trump’s claims aren’t just speculation.
    1. Dead people voting in Colorado.
    A CBS affiliate’s evidence of voter fraud in Colorado in September sparked an immediate investigation by Secretary of State Wayne Williams. A report in Denver exposed multiple incidents in recent years where dead Coloradans were still voting. A dead World War II veteran named John Grosso voted in a 2006 primary election, and a woman named Sara Sosa who died in 2009 cast ballots in 2010, 2011, 2012 and 2013. Mrs. Sosa’s husband Miguel died in 2008, but a vote was cast in his name one year later.
    2. Illegals found voting in Virginia; only discovered after they self-reported.
    A study by the watchdog Public Interest Legal Foundation found in just eight Virginia counties, 1,046 alien non-citizens successfully registered to vote. These aliens were only accidentally caught because when they renewed their driver’s license and self-reported, telling authorities they were a non-citizen. This study doesn’t even include the metropolises of Fairfax County and Arlington. Moreover, the FBI opened an investigation in the state after 20 dead people turned in applications to vote.
    3. Some Pennsylvania citizens voting twice.
    Last year, Pennsylvania’s secretary of state admitted data showed more than 700 Pennsylvania voters might have cast two ballots in recent elections, yet said she’s powerless to investigate or prosecute double voters.
    Nearly 43,000 voters in Pennsylvania had potentially duplicate registrations in either Pennsylvania or other states, data researcher Voter Registration Data Crosscheck found.
    4. Illegal voters uncovered in Philadelphia; half had previously voted.
    At least 86 non-citizens have been registered voters in Philadelphia since 2013, and almost half of them have cast a ballot in a recent election, watchdog Public Interest Legal Foundation noted this month. The number was only turned up after officials received specific requests from the voters themselves to remove their names from the rolls.
    “This is just the tip of the iceberg,” Joseph Vanderhulst, the watchdog’s attorney, told LifeZette on Oct. 5. “Who knows how many are on and don’t ask to be taken off?”
    5. Voter rigging triggers probe in Texas.
    This week, allegations of voter fraud in Tarrant County, Texas, prompted a state investigation. The suit focuses on mail-in ballots, which allows for people to vote from their homes without any ID or verification of identity. There’s concern of so-called “vote-harvesting” were political operatives fill out and return other people’s ballots, without their consent.
    6. Indiana voter fraud investigation grows to 56 counties.
    According to a local NBC report, Indiana State Police are in the midst of a statewide investigation into possible voter registration fraud.
    “Police believe there could be hundreds of fraudulent voter registration records with different combinations of made up names and addresses with people’s real information,” NBC 12 reported.
    The police encourage victims of suspected voter fraud to report it to Indiana’s secretary of state.
    7. Three under investigation in Oklahoma for voting twice in the presidential primary.
    An investigation is underway into three Comanche County, Oklahoma, residents who voted twice in last week’s Presidential Preferential Primary, according to the local ABC 7 News station, KSWO.
    “All three submitted absentee ballots before showing up to their polling place on March 1 and voted again in person,” the report said. “The Comanche County Sheriff’s Department is investigating the case and will interview all three of them before handing the case over to the district attorney.”
    8. Election fraud in Kentucky.
    A Franklin County grand jury has indicted a Pike County man in June on multiple felony counts of election fraud in connection with last month’s statewide primary.
    Keith Justice, 50, has been charged with four counts of intimidating an election officer and one count of interfering with an election officer in Pike County.
    9. Underage voters found voting in Wisconsin’s presidential primary.
    Brown County election officials in April found six cases where underage voters cast a ballot in the state’s presidential primary. County Clerk Sandy Juno told a local reporter that six 17-year-old students registered and voted. Despite five of the students presenting a valid ID, poll workers never looked at the date of birth on them or on the registration forms they filled out, Ms. Juno told local news website wearegreenbay.com. In one case, the student used a report card as identification.
    10. Voter registration cards sent to illegals in Pennsylvania.
    In September, the secretary of state’s office in Pennsylvania mailed about 2.5 million voter registration postcards to people who are not registered voters, but are licensed drivers. Secretary of State Pedro Cortes admitted to the House of Representatives that seven people had reported that they received voter registration cards in error, self-reporting.
    State Rep. Daryl Metcalfe, a Butler County Republican who chairs the State Government Committee, said in September testimony that there’s several problem’s with the state’s voter registration system.
    “There’s certainly the potential for hundreds, if not thousands, of foreigners here legally and illegally to be on our voter rolls, and a certain percentage who are casting ballots,” Mr. Metchalfe told LifeZette. “We’ve got a lot of integrity issues that need to be addressed.”


    No, voter fraud isn't a myth: 10 cases where it's all too real - Washington Times
    catonsville's Avatar
    catonsville Posts: 894, Reputation: 91
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    #32

    Jan 29, 2017, 03:59 PM
    Damn right, these demoncrats know how to tweak the votes and have been doing it for years. Let's say there are only 800,000 illegal votes doesn't is make sense that somewhere over the country, elections are being won or lost thanks to these illegal votes. Those that are won or lost by a few hundred or thousand votes? Jackasses can be very stubborn whereas an Elephant never forgets. Think about it.
    smoothy's Avatar
    smoothy Posts: 25,492, Reputation: 2853
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    #33

    Jan 29, 2017, 06:03 PM
    Excerpt from WIKILEAKS on encouraging people with no legal right to vote... HOW to do it... considering a number of left leaning states have been giving illegals drivers licences and the means to vote illegally.

    ... From:[email protected] To: [email protected] Date: 2015-02-04 03:32Subject: Re: Millennials PollJohn,What itch do you think we need to scratch?The risk reward here is not in our favor. This issue in any form, is hardly front and center in the lives and minds of voters and on the other side any perception of focusing on an issue that could be viewed as playing to a political audience would be problematic. There are 180 million people registered to vote. I just don't think they're going to view registering to vote as so difficult.Am I missing something here?JoelSent from my iPhoneOn Feb 3, 2015, at 9:54 PM, John Podesta <[email protected]<mailto:john.podesta@gmail. com>> wrote:I think Teddy's idea scratches the itch, is pretty safe and uncomplicated.On the picture ID, the one thing I have thought of in that space is that if you show up on Election Day with a drivers license with a picture, attest that you are a citizen, you have a right to vote in Federal elections.JP
    --Sent from my iPad--
    talaniman's Avatar
    talaniman Posts: 54,327, Reputation: 10855
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    #34

    Jan 29, 2017, 06:06 PM
    A picture ID is not enough to vote you actually must be registered.

    Just to add all those investigations Smoothy cited have been concluded and the results certified.

    Let's say there are only 800,000 illegal votes doesn't is make sense that somewhere over the country, elections are being won or lost thanks to these illegal votes.
    Yeah that makes sense if what you were saying was TRUE. I doubt it is though...just sayin'

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