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    Sean999's Avatar
    Sean999 Posts: 117, Reputation: 1
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    #1

    Dec 19, 2016, 08:36 AM
    Aikido and real fight
    Aikido is one of the most famous marital arts. I practcied Aikido for 3 months last 7 years. Now I practice again Aikido and it is already 1 year. The founder is also really amazing and because of his history, I learned about Aikido philosophy when I am not at dojo. But these days, I found that there are many weak points of Aikido.
    Aikido is not like other martial arts. It emphasis on philosophy and non-violence. Training of punch and kick are not included in Aikido. Punches that we used in dojo are just for partner to make techniques. We don't know the correct forceful punch.


    Let me share my thinking.
    1. Aikido itself have no weak points. It was really effective for the founder. Because he knows many different kinds of martial arts and also fought in wars.
    2. Aikido teaching style also have problems. Many aikido teachers teach philosophy and some of the useless techniques in training times. If you want to learn philosophy, you can simply learn philosophy by reading books or attending class. If you want to practice meditation and yoga, there are many centers for those and get join it. Very simple. Don't confuse in martial art class. What I mean is we can't get the real Aikido from the founder.
    3. I am not talking about violence. There is Japanese saying " A sword man in garden is better than a gardener in a war". So, when you have to protect yourself, your family and your friends, you have to fight. You take your times, energies and money to learn martial art and it is not effective in real fight, is it worth it?
    4. Let say about steven seagal. He is 7 dan black belt in Aikido. He also knows karate(may be black belt) and some Chinese martial art. I am sure if he is in real fight, his techniques will be mixed.
    5. If you get at least 3 dan black belt in aikido, I am sure you don't like me and think I am a stupid. But let me ask you something. If your country is in dangerous situation and you have to enter into army. There is no time for hand to hand combat training. Firstly, please don't think about guns and bombs and let say you don't know any other martial art. Would you enter into the army only with your aikido skills? The enemy will not come smoothly as like as your partner in dojo.
    Sorry to say about that. If you fight a war with just aikido skils, you will surely lose. But karate men are ready, kung fu men are ready. They know how to punch, how to kick and if they get hurt, they know how to strengthen again themselves. But we Aikidoka only know how to fall beautifully like entertainers.
    6. You can find that some of the top aikido master real fighting history. They used some non aikido techniques(I am not meaning about atemi). Why they used non aikido techniques? You will say that in life and death situations, you can't choose techniques. OK. Mas oyama, kyokushin founder only used karate in real fight. And so Bruce lee only used his very fast kung fu skills in real fight. If you don't believe me, you can find it.
    7. I am not blaming aikido. I am just want to get real aikido which is not confusing with useless things. Fight or not fight is choice. But a man who gives afford in martial art, at least he should get the teachings of how to fight in real fight and how to be ready in any situation. This is our rights.


    I don't go to dojo for a while because of these thoughts. I discussed about those with my teachers and gets unsatisfied answer. Should I change to learn another martial art?
    Wondergirl's Avatar
    Wondergirl Posts: 39,354, Reputation: 5431
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    #2

    Dec 19, 2016, 09:09 AM
    Why are you learning a martial art?

    Martial arts are of no use in war. If you want to fight "the bad guys" like Bruce Lee, you are taking martial arts classes for the wrong reason.

    It's good to know the philosophies as well as the moves. The first lesson my sons learned at their dojo was how to take a step back (not be aggressive) and let the opponent's weight and forward movement work against him for defense and defeat. During their training, my sons learned poise and good physical/mental balance and respect for authority and professional behavior, all of which have served them well during their adult lives.
    talaniman's Avatar
    talaniman Posts: 54,327, Reputation: 10855
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    #3

    Dec 19, 2016, 09:15 AM
    It is your choice what discipline you train and study in, so what's the confusion, and argument about? Figure out what YOU want, and simply go for it!

    It's called choice and it's all yours. Make your choice and get your own clarity. The teacher is not there to satisfy your curiosity, wants or needs, or make you a bad-. The body is but the physical extension of the mind.

    If your mind cannot accept and understand the answers you have been given, then the confusion is with YOU, not your teacher, which is simply, the student is NOT ready, and changing dojos may NOT help you.

    Consider your dilemma.
    Sean999's Avatar
    Sean999 Posts: 117, Reputation: 1
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    #4

    Dec 19, 2016, 08:44 PM
    To Wondergirl

    First thing you have to know is that I am very lazy to fight. I don't want to be a man like bruce lee. But you give afford to learn martial art and you can't protect yourself in dangerous situation whatever you have much physical and mental balance, it is completely useless. There are other things which can give balance. Just remember the Japanese saying " A sword man in garden is better than a gardener in a war". I am just want to know real teaching of aikido not violence.

    To talaniman

    My satisfaction and my thinking can't save me in real fight. I am just want to know real teaching of aikido. I am very lazy to fight but I want to be ready in every situations. I am just want to get someone who can explain the realistic effectiveness of Aikido. Not philosophy and not their own thinking.
    Wondergirl's Avatar
    Wondergirl Posts: 39,354, Reputation: 5431
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    #5

    Dec 19, 2016, 09:16 PM
    Are you expecting fights in your future?
    Sean999's Avatar
    Sean999 Posts: 117, Reputation: 1
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    #6

    Dec 20, 2016, 12:50 AM
    To Wondergirl

    I think I am already explained my thinking about fighting.
    talaniman's Avatar
    talaniman Posts: 54,327, Reputation: 10855
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    #7

    Dec 20, 2016, 08:01 AM
    To understand anything fully you must commit to learning fully, no matter what YOUR thinking is because YOUR full understanding is a thing that may take many years of hard work, and maybe it's your own thinking NOW that stands in the way of understanding such a thing.

    Often it is our own thinking that prevents us from understanding.
    Sean999's Avatar
    Sean999 Posts: 117, Reputation: 1
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    #8

    Dec 20, 2016, 08:32 AM
    To talaniman

    Your answer is very conceptual and reasonable. But the path you say is a path that I don't want to follow first. I want to know first what kind of it is clearly. However, thank you for giving your time to give me answer. I am appreciated it.
    talaniman's Avatar
    talaniman Posts: 54,327, Reputation: 10855
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    #9

    Dec 20, 2016, 08:48 AM
    No one martial art, or form of REAL fighting is better than another. They are but tools. YOU decide how you use the tools.
    Catsmine's Avatar
    Catsmine Posts: 3,826, Reputation: 739
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    #10

    Dec 20, 2016, 11:20 AM
    If I read your post correctly, you have studied for a total of 15 months and are having doubts about the style you chose. Have you achieved Sankyu rank? If you wish to study a pure combat style look into Israeli Krag Maga or USMC Kung Oorah. Marksmanship will also benefit your survival skills.
    Fr_Chuck's Avatar
    Fr_Chuck Posts: 81,301, Reputation: 7692
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    #11

    Dec 20, 2016, 06:04 PM
    Let me start by saying I owned one of Atlanta Ga largest Martial arts school for many years. I studied under one of the "houses" in Japan for several years. In our school we taught Aikido, TKD, Karate, Kempo, and Kunfu. Had different teachers for all of them. Although I am belted in Karate, Kempo and TKD. I just taught Kempo and sometimes children Karate.

    What is almost always taught in most American schools is forms or contest martial arts which is almost worthless in real fighting.

    Unless you practice and do full contact fighting you would be worthless in a real fight. Oh you would be OK against people not trained in any fighting. A true master after 10 years or more of Kungfu would almost always be the best in a real fight, next I would be Kempo since it is almost always taught as a full contact and taught to be violent (no pretty forms)

    (not the kids) but the older teens and adults who studied and fought at full contact, often ended up hurt during a contest, My last fight I had a foot print on my chest for about a week.

    The trouble with forms, is that they are predictable, next you are taught rules of fighting, where not to hit or kick, where to score points, all of which make you less effective in a real fight. You are taught not to kick them when they are down, why let them get up?
    Sean999's Avatar
    Sean999 Posts: 117, Reputation: 1
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    #12

    Dec 21, 2016, 08:13 PM
    TO Catsmine

    I am not in sankyu rank but in just some of begineer of level. You will think that a person who doesn't know martial art well is making criticizing. Martial art is body movement, physical exercise however we say spiritual or philosophical. They are another part. So just see the demonstration. There are many weak points and no one can explain it. Something like while the master is trying to make technique to the partner, the another partner is waiting behind him. In real fight, his head is already get hit. Krav maga is very good but unluckily our country still don't have this training.

    The only thing that I want to get is a teacher who can teach me real aikido. I don't want a teacher who say me wait and see and feel it and you will see one day. Thank you.
    Sean999's Avatar
    Sean999 Posts: 117, Reputation: 1
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    #13

    Dec 21, 2016, 08:30 PM
    To Fr_Chuck

    According to my understanding, you explain me that everything have their own benefits and weak points. OK. As I am a aikidoka, what should I do to make my skills to effective in real fights? Please tell me your ideas. As like as Japanese saying " A sword man in garden is better than a gardener in a war". So, I am just want to do garden work but I want to be ready. Thank you.
    Catsmine's Avatar
    Catsmine Posts: 3,826, Reputation: 739
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    #14

    Dec 22, 2016, 02:17 AM
    Sean,

    If not Sankyu, what rank have you achieved? You should have a prolonged conversation with your sensei, as you do not seem to be interested in the "Art" of martial arts. As Chuck has said, you will not learn to fight in a dojo. If that is your objective, you will need to look elsewhere.
    Sean999's Avatar
    Sean999 Posts: 117, Reputation: 1
    Junior Member
     
    #15

    Dec 22, 2016, 05:19 AM
    To Catsmine

    I don't want to share my rank. Sorry for this. I am surely not in master level but also not in beginner level. I have times to learn art, philosophy and spiritual things. I did and I will. The only problem is that I have lack of confidence on techniques that I practiced and use in real fight.

    You can see my questions and my answers that the only one my want is I want to be ready in every situations. I am not dreaming about complicated high kicks or punches which can kill bull. I am just simply dreaming about the real real real teaching of aikido and be ready in every situations.

    Living simply and being in dangerous is completely not the same thing. Thank you.
    talaniman's Avatar
    talaniman Posts: 54,327, Reputation: 10855
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    #16

    Dec 22, 2016, 07:22 AM
    The only thing that I want to get is a teacher who can teach me real aikido. I don't want a teacher who say me wait and see and feel it and you will see one day. Thank you.
    Sounds to me like you need to listen to your teacher and PRACTICE PATIENCE, as well as technique.

    The only problem is that I have lack of confidence on techniques that I practiced and use in real fight.
    I see a lack of confidence in yourself and a desire to hurry the process of LEARNING. A profound lack of PATIENCE. Is this lack of patience driven by fear of getting your arse kicked? What's the nature of this getting in a REAL fight? Living in a dangerous environment/neighborhood?
    Sean999's Avatar
    Sean999 Posts: 117, Reputation: 1
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    #17

    Dec 23, 2016, 05:45 AM
    To talaniman

    Patience is one of the necessary qualities to become real martial artist. I come to know I still need this because of you. Thank you. However, I am continue to find another qualities to learn realistic aikido.
    talaniman's Avatar
    talaniman Posts: 54,327, Reputation: 10855
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    #18

    Dec 23, 2016, 07:07 AM
    Is this lack of patience driven by fear of getting your arse kicked? What's the nature of this getting in a REAL fight? Living in a dangerous environment/neighborhood?
    Need clarity. I have no doubt that your ambition and zeal need to be TEMPERED, because you seem to be already in REAL Aikido (Whatever the hell that means) but need to respect the PROCESS.
    Sean999's Avatar
    Sean999 Posts: 117, Reputation: 1
    Junior Member
     
    #19

    Dec 23, 2016, 08:28 PM
    To talaniman

    You can know my respect and love to martial art if you really understand my writing. Or not, let be my language weakness. I don't want to say many things. But the only one thing is I don't like your usage.

    My question is very simple. Just want to get teacher to teach me realistic aikido and knowledge about the real usage of aikido in real fight whatever I want to fight or not or wherever I stay. This is clarity.

    I don't want to regret to choose this website.
    Wondergirl's Avatar
    Wondergirl Posts: 39,354, Reputation: 5431
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    #20

    Dec 23, 2016, 08:56 PM
    May I ask -- how old are you?

    Have you asked Aikido tteachers how long it took them to earn the highest belt?

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