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    Sitka801's Avatar
    Sitka801 Posts: 4, Reputation: 1
    New Member
     
    #1

    Nov 8, 2016, 04:29 PM
    Toilet arm clog causing the shower to back up?
    (I think) I've tried everything to un-clog this backup. Flush the toilet, water starts coming up the shower drain. The toilet still flushes, but I can see the water in the shower drain rising up again. Started with the old baking soda/vinegar thing down the shower drain, no luck. Went on to snaking the toilet with a closet auger (finally) got it in up to the handle, still no luck. Have been trying to get a 25 FT vinyl snake down the toilet but it's getting stuck somewhere. Got a 50 FT snake down the outside clean-out with no problem. So I need help with either getting the snake through the toilet (it's a Koehler Rialto) or do I have to remove the toilet and go at it there? Please help before tears well up and VERY inappropriate words start coming out!Thank You!RB
    ballengerb1's Avatar
    ballengerb1 Posts: 27,378, Reputation: 2280
    Home Repair & Remodeling Expert
     
    #2

    Nov 8, 2016, 06:18 PM
    Your clog is clearly downstream of where the toilet drain and the shower drain come together. If you got 25' of a vinyl snake down the toilet it had to be awfully small.You need to remove the toilet and rod with at least a 2" cutter snake.
    Sitka801's Avatar
    Sitka801 Posts: 4, Reputation: 1
    New Member
     
    #3

    Nov 9, 2016, 06:28 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by ballengerb1 View Post
    Your clog is clearly downstream of where the toilet drain and the shower drain come together. If you got 25' of a vinyl snake down the toilet it had to be awfully small.You need to remove the toilet and rod with at least a 2" cutter snake.
    Arrgh! I was praying for some miracle cure, but you're probably right! Thanks so much for taking the time to answer.RB
    hkstroud's Avatar
    hkstroud Posts: 11,929, Reputation: 899
    Home Improvement & Construction Expert
     
    #4

    Nov 9, 2016, 02:02 PM
    Please help before tears well up
    Now don't start that. While it may be a disaster to not have a toilet, it is not a disaster to have to snake one

    From that comment I get the impression that you are of the kinder, gentler gender and prettier than the rest of us.

    If that is correct, it is not really that hard to pull the toilet and snake the line. You, of course, cannot get that vinyl snake through the toilet. It is just too stiff.

    If you would like guidance on pulling the toilet post back. You should be able to use the vinyl snake once you have the toilet moved. I don't necessary agree with Bob that you need a sewer snake. The smaller drain snake will probably break up the clog and it will flush away.

    You may have a little problem lifting the toilet but you don't have to move it very far.

    Post back if you are interested in trying.
    Milo Dolezal's Avatar
    Milo Dolezal Posts: 7,192, Reputation: 523
    Plumbing Expert
     
    #5

    Nov 9, 2016, 02:44 PM
    You have stubborn clog. Rent 5/8" x 50' snake from Home Depot. Remove toilet, insert the snake into the pipe through the hole in the floor, and run the cable several times - all the way in - and back out

    Hope that helps

    Milo
    Sitka801's Avatar
    Sitka801 Posts: 4, Reputation: 1
    New Member
     
    #6

    Nov 9, 2016, 04:32 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by hkstroud View Post
    Now don't start that. While it may be a disaster to not have a toilet, it is not a disaster to have to snake one

    From that comment I get the impression that you are of the kinder, gentler gender and prettier than the rest of us.

    If that is correct, it is not really that hard to pull the toilet and snake the line. You, of course, cannot get that vinyl snake through the toilet. It is just too stiff.

    If you would like guidance on pulling the toilet post back. You should be able to use the vinyl snake once you have the toilet moved. I don't necessary agree with Bob that you need a sewer snake. The smaller drain snake will probably break up the clog and it will flush away.

    You may have a little problem lifting the toilet but you don't have to move it very far.

    Post back if you are interested in trying.
    Yes please! I've replaced toilets before so I kind of know the drill. I'm worried that after I get it off I won't be able to grab or even see the clog. And then I'd be relying on pushing the snake down the large sewer pipe with a 3/8" wire. Will it just get stuck a few feet farther down? I thought about flushing it out with a hose (after I snake it) but it will be a hassle to get a hose into that bathroom. And then would I just end up filling the line with water? Not sure how big the next line is, but the cleanout is on the outside of the house only about 5' away (if that helps) from the toilet. We have no kids, so no toys down there. We live in the desert so no roots. So I think it must just be TP etc. Will my snake handle that? Thanks for all the help HK!

    Quote Originally Posted by hkstroud View Post
    Now don't start that. While it may be a disaster to not have a toilet, it is not a disaster to have to snake one

    From that comment I get the impression that you are of the kinder, gentler gender and prettier than the rest of us.

    If that is correct, it is not really that hard to pull the toilet and snake the line. You, of course, cannot get that vinyl snake through the toilet. It is just too stiff.

    If you would like guidance on pulling the toilet post back. You should be able to use the vinyl snake once you have the toilet moved. I don't necessary agree with Bob that you need a sewer snake. The smaller drain snake will probably break up the clog and it will flush away.

    You may have a little problem lifting the toilet but you don't have to move it very far.

    Post back if you are interested in trying.
    Yes please! I've replaced toilets before so I kind of know the drill. I'm worried that after I get it off I won't be able to grab or even see the clog. And then I'd be relying on pushing the snake down the large sewer pipe with a 3/8" wire. Will it just get stuck a few feet farther down? I thought about flushing it out with a hose (after I snake it) but it will be a hassle to get a hose into that bathroom. And then would I just end up filling the line with water? Not sure how big the next line is, but the cleanout is on the outside of the house only about 5' away (if that helps) from the toilet. We have no kids, so no toys down there. We live in the desert so no roots. So I think it must just be TP etc. Will my snake handle that? Thanks for all the help HK!

    Quote Originally Posted by Milo Dolezal View Post
    You have stubborn clog. Rent 5/8" x 50' snake from Home Depot. Remove toilet, insert the snake into the pipe through the hole in the floor, and run the cable several times - all the way in - and back out

    Hope that helps

    Milo
    Thanks Milo, I'm hoping that will be my VERY last option. Unless I have to break down and pay Mr. Rooter man (insert your favorite plumber here)
    Thanks again!
    hkstroud's Avatar
    hkstroud Posts: 11,929, Reputation: 899
    Home Improvement & Construction Expert
     
    #7

    Nov 9, 2016, 07:35 PM
    OK,
    You indicated that you have a vinyl covered snake. That can be a manual snake, one you turn by hand as you push it down the drain pipe or it can be one that you chuck in a drill. Either of these should be about 20' long and should work. Of course, you don't know what is blocking the line but the snake should break it up and let you flush it away.

    Frist remove the toilet tank top and place it somewhere that it won't get broken. I like to lay them flat on the floor somewhere. That way it can't fall and get broken.

    Next turn off the water at the stop valve. Flush the toilet and hold the flapper open and let the tank drain. Then use a small cup or glass to dip out the water that remains in the tank. Dip and sponge out all the water in the bowl.

    Disconnect the water supply tube between the stop valve and the tank. You can disconnect the tubing at the stop valve or at the tank.

    Remove the caps on the hold down bolts. These usually just pop off. Then using either a pair of pliers or a small wrench remove th nuts on the hold down bolts.
    Sometimes while unscrewing the hold down nuts, the bolts will start turning. If this happans, loosen the other side, then lift one side of the toilet. This will pull the bolts back up into the flange and stop them from turning.

    After removing the nuts you should see a metal washer, then a plastic washer. Pay attention to the plastic washer. It has ridge on the edge that snaps into groove the plastic cap. This ridge must be on the top side to fit into the goove.

    You should have a cloth or a piece of plastic to sit the toilet on. Less clean up that way.

    Straddle the toilet, facing the tank. Grasp the toilet behind the seat and lift. Sit it on you plastic.


    Begin feeding you snake down the drain while turning. You may be able to feel the blockage when you hit it or you may not. After feeding the snake down the drain as far as you can or until you think you have gone far enough, pour a bucket of water down the drain. If you would like you can pour water down the drain before you begin snaking. That way you should see the water drain away when you clear the blockage.

    You said that there is a clean out on the outside about 5 feet away. Before you start, remove the plug of that clean out. Flush the toilet. If the blockage is between the toilet and the clean out, no water will come out the clean out and water will back up out the shower drain as usual. If the blockage is after the clean out all the water should come out the clean out. Flush a couple more time to make sure. If the blockage is after the clean out snake from there. If you can't clear it you will have to get longer snake.

    Before you start you should have,

    A bucket to both put the water you dip out of the toilet, and to pour water down the drain.

    A small container dip the water out.

    A large sponge.

    A plastic trash bag to sit the toilet on.

    Pliers or wrench to lossen the water supply tube
    And to lossen the toilet hold down bolts.

    A new wax ring, I recommend the type with the horn in the center.

    If the supply tube you have now is the old metal type, I suggest that you replace it with flexible braided type. They are much easier to install.

    After snakeing the drain, remove all the old wax ring. Place the new wax ring on the floor flange. Press it down to make it stick in place. The press it outward from the center and downward. This will prevent it from possibley blocking the toilet when you sit the toilet down on it and compress the wax ring. Also make sure that the hold down bolts are in the correct position and standing up. You can use a little of the wax ring to make them stay in place.

    Again straddling the toilet, lift and set in place. Then take a break and sit on the toilet for a couple of minutes. This will compress the wax ring. Then put the washers and nut on the hold down bolts. Tighten both sides until snug. Then begin tightening each side alternately. Try to move the toilet by twisting it. Do not try to lift if. You will break the seal of the wax ring if you lift it. When the toilet will no longer move by twisting, stop tightening the bolts. It is not that hard to over tighten and break the toilet.

    Reconnect the water supply line and turn on the water.
    Sitka801's Avatar
    Sitka801 Posts: 4, Reputation: 1
    New Member
     
    #8

    Nov 9, 2016, 08:27 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by hkstroud View Post
    OK,
    You indicated that you have a vinyl covered snake. That can be a manual snake, one you turn by hand as you push it down the drain pipe or it can be one that you chuck in a drill. Either of these should be about 20' long and should work. Of course, you don't know what is blocking the line but the snake should break it up and let you flush it away.

    Frist remove the toilet tank top and place it somewhere that it won't get broken. I like to lay them flat on the floor somewhere. That way it can't fall and get broken.

    Next turn off the water at the stop valve. Flush the toilet and hold the flapper open and let the tank drain. Then use a small cup or glass to dip out the water that remains in the tank. Dip and sponge out all the water in the bowl.

    Disconnect the water supply tube between the stop valve and the tank. You can disconnect the tubing at the stop valve or at the tank.

    Remove the caps on the hold down bolts. These usually just pop off. Then using either a pair of pliers or a small wrench remove th nuts on the hold down bolts.
    Sometimes while unscrewing the hold down nuts, the bolts will start turning. If this happans, loosen the other side, then lift one side of the toilet. This will pull the bolts back up into the flange and stop them from turning.

    After removing the nuts you should see a metal washer, then a plastic washer. Pay attention to the plastic washer. It has ridge on the edge that snaps into groove the plastic cap. This ridge must be on the top side to fit into the goove.

    You should have a cloth or a piece of plastic to sit the toilet on. Less clean up that way.

    Straddle the toilet, facing the tank. Grasp the toilet behind the seat and lift. Sit it on you plastic.


    Begin feeding you snake down the drain while turning. You may be able to feel the blockage when you hit it or you may not. After feeding the snake down the drain as far as you can or until you think you have gone far enough, pour a bucket of water down the drain. If you would like you can pour water down the drain before you begin snaking. That way you should see the water drain away when you clear the blockage.

    You said that there is a clean out on the outside about 5 feet away. Before you start, remove the plug of that clean out. Flush the toilet. If the blockage is between the toilet and the clean out, no water will come out the clean out and water will back up out the shower drain as usual. If the blockage is after the clean out all the water should come out the clean out. Flush a couple more time to make sure. If the blockage is after the clean out snake from there. If you can't clear it you will have to get longer snake.

    Before you start you should have,

    A bucket to both put the water you dip out of the toilet, and to pour water down the drain.

    A small container dip the water out.

    A large sponge.

    A plastic trash bag to sit the toilet on.

    Pliers or wrench to lossen the water supply tube
    And to lossen the toilet hold down bolts.

    A new wax ring, I recommend the type with the horn in the center.

    If the supply tube you have now is the old metal type, I suggest that you replace it with flexible braided type. They are much easier to install.

    After snakeing the drain, remove all the old wax ring. Place the new wax ring on the floor flange. Press it down to make it stick in place. The press it outward from the center and downward. This will prevent it from possibley blocking the toilet when you sit the toilet down on it and compress the wax ring. Also make sure that the hold down bolts are in the correct position and standing up. You can use a little of the wax ring to make them stay in place.

    Again straddling the toilet, lift and set in place. Then take a break and sit on the toilet for a couple of minutes. This will compress the wax ring. Then put the washers and nut on the hold down bolts. Tighten both sides until snug. Then begin tightening each side alternately. Try to move the toilet by twisting it. Do not try to lift if. You will break the seal of the wax ring if you lift it. When the toilet will no longer move by twisting, stop tightening the bolts. It is not that hard to over tighten and break the toilet.

    Reconnect the water supply line and turn on the water.
    That's awesome HK! Definitely going at it this way!
    Thanks so much!
    RB

    Quote Originally Posted by hkstroud View Post
    OK,
    You indicated that you have a vinyl covered snake. That can be a manual snake, one you turn by hand as you push it down the drain pipe or it can be one that you chuck in a drill. Either of these should be about 20' long and should work. Of course, you don't know what is blocking the line but the snake should break it up and let you flush it away.

    Frist remove the toilet tank top and place it somewhere that it won't get broken. I like to lay them flat on the floor somewhere. That way it can't fall and get broken.

    Next turn off the water at the stop valve. Flush the toilet and hold the flapper open and let the tank drain. Then use a small cup or glass to dip out the water that remains in the tank. Dip and sponge out all the water in the bowl.

    Disconnect the water supply tube between the stop valve and the tank. You can disconnect the tubing at the stop valve or at the tank.

    Remove the caps on the hold down bolts. These usually just pop off. Then using either a pair of pliers or a small wrench remove th nuts on the hold down bolts.
    Sometimes while unscrewing the hold down nuts, the bolts will start turning. If this happans, loosen the other side, then lift one side of the toilet. This will pull the bolts back up into the flange and stop them from turning.

    After removing the nuts you should see a metal washer, then a plastic washer. Pay attention to the plastic washer. It has ridge on the edge that snaps into groove the plastic cap. This ridge must be on the top side to fit into the goove.

    You should have a cloth or a piece of plastic to sit the toilet on. Less clean up that way.

    Straddle the toilet, facing the tank. Grasp the toilet behind the seat and lift. Sit it on you plastic.


    Begin feeding you snake down the drain while turning. You may be able to feel the blockage when you hit it or you may not. After feeding the snake down the drain as far as you can or until you think you have gone far enough, pour a bucket of water down the drain. If you would like you can pour water down the drain before you begin snaking. That way you should see the water drain away when you clear the blockage.

    You said that there is a clean out on the outside about 5 feet away. Before you start, remove the plug of that clean out. Flush the toilet. If the blockage is between the toilet and the clean out, no water will come out the clean out and water will back up out the shower drain as usual. If the blockage is after the clean out all the water should come out the clean out. Flush a couple more time to make sure. If the blockage is after the clean out snake from there. If you can't clear it you will have to get longer snake.

    Before you start you should have,

    A bucket to both put the water you dip out of the toilet, and to pour water down the drain.

    A small container dip the water out.

    A large sponge.

    A plastic trash bag to sit the toilet on.

    Pliers or wrench to lossen the water supply tube
    And to lossen the toilet hold down bolts.

    A new wax ring, I recommend the type with the horn in the center.

    If the supply tube you have now is the old metal type, I suggest that you replace it with flexible braided type. They are much easier to install.

    After snakeing the drain, remove all the old wax ring. Place the new wax ring on the floor flange. Press it down to make it stick in place. The press it outward from the center and downward. This will prevent it from possibley blocking the toilet when you sit the toilet down on it and compress the wax ring. Also make sure that the hold down bolts are in the correct position and standing up. You can use a little of the wax ring to make them stay in place.

    Again straddling the toilet, lift and set in place. Then take a break and sit on the toilet for a couple of minutes. This will compress the wax ring. Then put the washers and nut on the hold down bolts. Tighten both sides until snug. Then begin tightening each side alternately. Try to move the toilet by twisting it. Do not try to lift if. You will break the seal of the wax ring if you lift it. When the toilet will no longer move by twisting, stop tightening the bolts. It is not that hard to over tighten and break the toilet.

    Reconnect the water supply line and turn on the water.
    That's awesome HK! Definitely going at it this way!
    Thanks so much!
    RB

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