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    jammy23's Avatar
    jammy23 Posts: 545, Reputation: 0
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    #1

    Aug 20, 2016, 12:53 PM
    Mental illness
    A neighbor who is pretty elderly has a son who comes home weekends from the adult home he lives in. The neighbor set up a fund so his son has a forever place. The son has a mental illness (possibly bi-polar) and now he has stopped taking his medications. His father explained to me that he cannot be forced to take his medication.

    So when he comes back to his father's he tosses garbage, moves chairs, beds bureaus, and a number of things. He also disappears during the night taking trains all over
    the city... even tried to check into a hotel. He has his own credit card and some $$$

    He can't be locked up and his father is besides himself. I think he's going to have his own breakdown, if not a heart attack. He's trying a method to let his son do whatever
    he wants and is trying to stay calm... I wish I could give some advice but I don't know what to say. I also know that he won't change the locks and lock out his only son. Any suggestions?
    cdad's Avatar
    cdad Posts: 12,700, Reputation: 1438
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    #2

    Aug 20, 2016, 01:02 PM
    Is the son making threats to anyone including the father? He might end up in jail over it but it may be the evil that turns him around.
    smoothy's Avatar
    smoothy Posts: 25,492, Reputation: 2853
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    #3

    Aug 20, 2016, 01:23 PM
    Mental illness or not... he gets in the wrong persons face and they might kill him. And certain places that is far more likely than others.

    He very well CAN be institutionalized against his will if he is proven to be a threat to himself or others to the court.
    Wondergirl's Avatar
    Wondergirl Posts: 39,354, Reputation: 5431
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    #4

    Aug 20, 2016, 01:31 PM
    Is the dad in touch with the supervisors and social workers at the adult home? If not, he needs to be for his own safety as well as his son's. The adult home wouldn't allow the son to live there if he's not cooperating. The son must take his meds or be hospitalized.
    jammy23's Avatar
    jammy23 Posts: 545, Reputation: 0
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    #5

    Aug 20, 2016, 03:04 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by cdad View Post
    Is the son making threats to anyone including the father? He might end up in jail over it but it may be the evil that turns him around.
    No threats

    Quote Originally Posted by Wondergirl View Post
    Is the dad in touch with the supervisors and social workers at the adult home? If not, he needs to be for his own safety as well as his son's. The adult home wouldn't allow the son to live there if he's not cooperating. The son must take his meds or be hospitalized.
    If there is a problem
    At the adult home, they will all the police and he would be finally hospitalized but so far he hasn't done anything there to warrant calling the police

    Quote Originally Posted by smoothy View Post
    Mental illness or not... he gets in the wrong persons face and they might kill him. And certain places that is far more likely than others.

    He very well CAN be institutionalized against his will if he is proven to be a threat to himself or others to the court.
    Only if he's proven to be a threat..
    He's being stubborn and crazy stuff, but nothing to call the police about. His
    Father called the police once when he disappeared overnight and made a report
    But he returned to the adult home from wherever... the laws in favor of the
    Patient are very restrictive as far as what a parent can do or not do. It use
    To be that two doctor's can sign in a patient to a hospital but no more.
    smoothy's Avatar
    smoothy Posts: 25,492, Reputation: 2853
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    #6

    Aug 20, 2016, 03:22 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by jammy23 View Post
    No threats

    If there is a problem
    At the adult home, they will all the police and he would be finally hospitalized but so far he hasn't done anything there to warrant calling the police

    Only if he's proven to be a threat..
    He's being stubborn and crazy stuff, but nothing to call the police about. His
    Father called the police once when he disappeared overnight and made a report
    But he returned to the adult home from wherever... the laws in favor of the
    Patient are very restrictive as far as what a parent can do or not do. It use
    To be that two doctor's can sign in a patient to a hospital but no more.
    I agree, it's a high hurdle to prove. Being stubborn, and doing crazy stuff (plenty of perfectly sane people do that) is not the same as being a danger to themselves or others on its own, some line has to be clearly crossed. And it has to be proven to the court. Though Doctors would be the best ones to make that argument.
    Wondergirl's Avatar
    Wondergirl Posts: 39,354, Reputation: 5431
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    #7

    Aug 20, 2016, 03:23 PM
    The dad needs to talk with the therapists and social workers at the adult home and tell them what's happening at his house. It's called "continuity of care."
    talaniman's Avatar
    talaniman Posts: 54,327, Reputation: 10855
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    #8

    Aug 20, 2016, 06:21 PM
    I agree, dad should let his caregivers know what's going on when his son is away and off his meds at their facility. Until the son crosses the line of acceptable behavior and poses a real threat then little can be done.

    Sadly dad may need some meds himself.
    joypulv's Avatar
    joypulv Posts: 21,591, Reputation: 2941
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    #9

    Aug 20, 2016, 06:23 PM
    My suggestion is to be his friend and mostly just listen. I have a funny feeling that he's capable of changing the agreement with the home to no longer include weekends. And just because his son has an illness doesn't mean he isn't able to decide between taking medication and being allowed to go home. The dad's trying this 'freedom' but he knows that he can deliver an ultimatum to his son.

    My one question would be whether or not he has someone to look after his home and matters pertaining to his son now, while he's alive, not just after he's gone. He could be sick at home, sick in a hospital, or just decrepit, unable to deal with his son, all sorts of situations. A lawyer or bank who can hire someone to have some power of attorney for some matters. I'm guessing he does, but you could ask.
    jammy23's Avatar
    jammy23 Posts: 545, Reputation: 0
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    #10

    Aug 21, 2016, 03:56 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by joypulv View Post
    My suggestion is to be his friend and mostly just listen. I have a funny feeling that he's capable of changing the agreement with the home to no longer include weekends. And just because his son has an illness doesn't mean he isn't able to decide between taking medication and being allowed to go home. The dad's trying this 'freedom' but he knows that he can deliver an ultimatum to his son.

    My one question would be whether or not he has someone to look after his home and matters pertaining to his son now, while he's alive, not just after he's gone. He could be sick at home, sick in a hospital, or just decrepit, unable to deal with his son, all sorts of situations. A lawyer or bank who can hire someone to have some power of attorney for some matters. I'm guessing he does, but you could ask.
    It's an adult home. He can come and go as he pleases. The father spoke to them at the home and they said he hasn't done anything really serious enough to call for help. You're right... listening is about all I can do. I can't ask about the legal matters, it would be over the line for me. All I can do is listen and he did tell me his son was provided for... now and after he's gone

    Quote Originally Posted by Wondergirl View Post
    The dad needs to talk with the therapists and social workers at the adult home and tell them what's happening at his house. It's called "continuity of care."
    He has. They said he hasn't done anything serious to warrant a call to a
    Hospital or the police (yet)
    Wondergirl's Avatar
    Wondergirl Posts: 39,354, Reputation: 5431
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    #11

    Aug 21, 2016, 04:05 PM
    So when he comes back to his father's he tosses garbage, moves chairs, beds bureaus, and a number of things. He also disappears during the night taking trains all over
    the city... even tried to check into a hotel. He has his own credit card and some $$$
    These activities don't qualify for concern? Plus, he goes off his meds. Dad sounds like he's enabling his son. And yes, not much you can do.
    jammy23's Avatar
    jammy23 Posts: 545, Reputation: 0
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    #12

    Aug 23, 2016, 03:48 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by Wondergirl View Post
    These activities don't qualify for concern? Plus, he goes off his meds. Dad sounds like he's enabling his son. And yes, not much you can do.

    Well, the problem is solved... at least for now it is. His son went somewhere and
    Wouldn't leave at closing. He began yelling and cursing, etc. and the police were called. He was put into a hospital. The hospital may or may not keep him.
    If they send him to psych , the area where this took place, would the hospital
    Closest to here and it's absolutely the worst... a real snake pit... the father
    Called the social workers at the adult home but they said unless he goes to
    Court (and I didn't understand the next part) but he something like he wants
    His son to remain independent... anyway, that's the update to you wondergirl
    Who has taken the time to reply and a number of other people on this same
    Page.
    Wondergirl's Avatar
    Wondergirl Posts: 39,354, Reputation: 5431
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    #13

    Aug 23, 2016, 04:07 PM
    Please keep us updated.
    jammy23's Avatar
    jammy23 Posts: 545, Reputation: 0
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    #14

    Aug 25, 2016, 01:44 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by Wondergirl View Post
    Please keep us updated.
    See above note that I wrote
    Wondergirl's Avatar
    Wondergirl Posts: 39,354, Reputation: 5431
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    #15

    Aug 25, 2016, 01:48 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by jammy23 View Post
    See above note that I wrote
    I saw that. The adventure isn't over yet.
    dontknownuthin's Avatar
    dontknownuthin Posts: 2,910, Reputation: 751
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    #16

    Aug 25, 2016, 02:39 PM
    Even if he were making threats to hurt someone or himself, the most that would be likely to happen would be a 72 hour hold in a hospital mental ward. They'd try to get him stabilized and then release him and he could stop taking his meds again.

    It used to be that people like him would be locked into mental hospitals for life, where the care was terrible and being with other mental patients was nightmarish. Abuse was rampant - sexual, physical and mental, and many people were subjected to terrible treatments like electroshock and lobotomy. So regulations were put into place restoring their rights to remain free so long as they are not an immediate threat to themselves or others. This has been too far in the other direction.

    It would be wonderful if we could make it a higher priority to provide for addicted and mentally ill people in our country, and be able to commit them to treatment that is not prison-like, such as smaller residential group homes where they can received in-home support and monitoring of their medication. Many homeless people are actually mentally ill - unable to function in society, they end up living on the street. The same issues occur for drug addicted people. If they are adults, family cannot commit them, but the addiction and/or mental illness, which often go hand in hand, render them incompetent to make good decisions about their welfare. There really is nothing you can do for your neighbor but to be understanding and supportive.

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