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    classyT's Avatar
    classyT Posts: 1,562, Reputation: 214
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    #1

    Jul 29, 2016, 12:41 PM
    Rapture
    Do you believe in the rapture of the church. Why or why not? If you do believe in the rapture, is it pre-trib, mid-trib, post-trib. Do you have scripture to back up what you believe?
    Oliver2011's Avatar
    Oliver2011 Posts: 2,606, Reputation: 746
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    #2

    Aug 1, 2016, 06:27 PM
    I believe Revelations and believe it is what the end will be like. These could be the beginning of those days.
    Luna Whitewolf's Avatar
    Luna Whitewolf Posts: 9, Reputation: 3
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    #3

    Aug 2, 2016, 12:21 PM
    I believe church is in my heart and in nature... I believe that there is positive and negative energies to any deity or deities you believe in. That if you believe in the Holy scripture of whatever religion you are apart of, go to church, go outside in nature or whatever you do - it is your connection with your deity or deities and only you can have that relationship and understanding. Faith is enrichment and finding hope in the worst of situations is what gives you strength and love is what makes you always put your best foot forward. To practice with like minded individuals always makes the connection powerful... what you believe in... whatever anyone else says is irrelevant because it's your experience. To continue to show respect and compassion to all those around you, as the divine spirit is in all things in my opinion, is the true path though not every one is plesant (they have experiences too as we all lead different paths). I think that religion has changed and continues to be re-written by past and current and future generations and it's hard to understand it's authenticy.I think our ancestors knew more about the universe as they connected themselves with nature and the cosmos - we research and are given information but it is again only what you truly believe that will be your salvation. The bible is a great example of pre, mid and post ideals and concepts... and I've discussed this topic in great detail with priests and pastors but not a straight answer could be given... we have lost a lot of information - don't stop believing and remember you can take and learn and practice what you will - what fills your heart with peace and joy. It is what will make each individual recognize or relate to what they absorb and can associate themselves to. Only a shift in the personal paradigm can be experienced by you and only you. I don't believe in the news and I don't believe everything I read... I will not live in fear but will rejoice my life every day and will live every day as a blessing and those that walk a mile with me as well. There is only one path... to finding oneself is to finding God you create your personal rapture on this plane... when the earth ceases to exist or the human race is extinguished is not of your control but how you walk out of this life is.
    Precious7's Avatar
    Precious7 Posts: 333, Reputation: 61
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    #4

    Aug 2, 2016, 05:04 PM
    Hey Classy T, here is the answer for your question, Yes I believe in Rapture. Why I believe? Well, because It is written and I am a believer.
    Scripture- 1st Thessalonians 4.

    ''13Brothers and sisters, we do not want you to be uninformed about those who sleep in death, so that you do not grieve like the rest of mankind, who have no hope. 14For we believe that Jesus died and rose again, and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him. 15According to the Lord’s word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. 18Therefore encourage one another with these words.

    - Rapture comes from a latin word 'Rapturo' which is translation in the greek verb is ''Caught up''.

    'Church' is a bride of the Lamb. So church probably won't have to face the God's wrath on earth, Just my thought. But still can't say Pre or post not in the position to comment on that Because I Need to research more on that area. When I will find out, I'll post. :)
    dwashbur's Avatar
    dwashbur Posts: 1,456, Reputation: 175
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    #5

    Aug 6, 2016, 07:56 AM
    The 1 Thessalonians passages indicates that there will be a "rapture." It doesn't say when. It doesn't say anything about whether it happens before, during, or after other events. It just says it'll happen. That's it.

    However, we have a couple of indicators in the passage itself. The word for "meet" (the Lord in the air) was used when people would come out of a city to MEET their leader when he returned from a successful conquest, and escort him back into the city. That's how this word was used, and it's consistent. So what does it tell us?

    It tells us that when Jesus returns, we will be caught up with Him, transformed, then we'll accompany Him in his triumphal return to Earth.

    Some people look at Titus 2:13 and try to say that the "blessed hope" and "glorious appearing" are two different events, but the grammar of the verse says otherwise. There's a special construction there that makes it clear they are the same thing. (It's called Granville Sharp's rule for those who like little-known facts for smart alecks.)

    No other passage in the entire Bible gives any further information. Over the centuries, some people have taken this simple idea and shoved a bunch of artificial theological systems on it to make it say what they want, but that's bunk. It says what it says.

    There will be a "rapture," but it will happen when Jesus returns to Earth to fix everything.
    joypulv's Avatar
    joypulv Posts: 21,591, Reputation: 2941
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    #6

    Aug 6, 2016, 06:33 PM
    dwashbur, I am not religious, but it is always nice to hear what you have to say.
    ma0641's Avatar
    ma0641 Posts: 15,675, Reputation: 1012
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    #7

    Aug 9, 2016, 03:46 PM
    As much as I believe in using the Bible as a guide book, there are many things that raise questions. Did woman come from Adam's rib? That is just one story of creation, there are 2 in Genesis. There are hundreds on "sins" in Leviticus, crops, animals, clothing of 2 materials, cutting your beards. If you say " well that's the OT", so are the 10 commandments. Look at Deuteronomy and read the story of the disobedient son. Do you expect the city council to stone your son if he doesn't listen to them? In Genesis, Cain kills Abel and GOD puts puts a mark on him so the other people won't kill him. Cain's wife and the other people-where did they come from? The " Seven deadly sins" aren't in the Bible. It doesn't say you need to go to Church, I do, it says on the seventh day " he rested". Everyone must die, according to the Bible but Elijah and Enoch didn't didn't. Using the bible to make a case for Rapture is pure speculation. The Beatitudes seems a better thing to think about rather than the Rapture.
    dwashbur's Avatar
    dwashbur Posts: 1,456, Reputation: 175
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    #8

    Aug 9, 2016, 09:20 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by ma0641 View Post
    The Beatitudes seems a better thing to think about rather than the Rapture.
    I can definitely agree with this statement. The rest, not so much, but great finish.
    classyT's Avatar
    classyT Posts: 1,562, Reputation: 214
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    #9

    Aug 10, 2016, 08:18 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by ma0641 View Post
    The Beatitudes seems a better thing to think about rather than the Rapture.


    Hmm? Well I disagree. Titus 2:13 says we wait for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of the great God and our savior Jesus Christ. So thinking about when the Lord Jesus will return is my HOPE! The bible doesn't say every man must die. It states it is appointed unto man, once to die and after that the judgment. Mankind has a whole has an appointed to die... not EVERY man! Otherwise if every man had an appointment with death, Elijah and Enoch wouldn't have been raptured. No... Paul is clear there is a rapture... and those that are alive and remain will be caught up to meet HIM in the air.

    Quote Originally Posted by joypulv View Post
    dwashbur, I am not religious, but it is always nice to hear what you have to say.
    Joy, oh good grief, please don't encourage him. :D
    classyT's Avatar
    classyT Posts: 1,562, Reputation: 214
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    #10

    Aug 10, 2016, 08:35 AM
    Dave,

    I completely disagree but you know that. Just for grins answer this, if those believers who are alive and remain go through the tribulation period or whenever you think Jesus will come back, tell me this who goes into the Millennium and populates the earth? He is reigning for 1000 years. Who are the people who will populate the earth! As those who are alive and remain will be changed in a twinkle of an eye, our bodies changed forever, incorruptible like the Lord Jesus. Dead in Christ first, then us. Jesus is clear we will be like the angels and not be given in marriage. We won't be married. So who are these people who populate the earth during his reign?

    Quote Originally Posted by Luna Whitewolf View Post
    I believe church is in my heart and in nature... I believe that there is positive and negative energies to any deity or deities you believe in. That if you believe in the Holy scripture of whatever religion you are apart of, go to church, go outside in nature or whatever you do - it is your connection with your deity or deities and only you can have that relationship and understanding. Faith is enrichment and finding hope in the worst of situations is what gives you strength and love is what makes you always put your best foot forward. To practice with like minded individuals always makes the connection powerful... what you believe in... whatever anyone else says is irrelevant because it's your experience. To continue to show respect and compassion to all those around you, as the divine spirit is in all things in my opinion, is the true path though not every one is plesant (they have experiences too as we all lead different
    paths). I think that religion has changed and continues to be re-written by past and current and future generations and it's hard to understand it's authenticy.I think our ancestors knew more about the universe as they connected themselves with nature and the cosmos - we research and are given information but it is again only what you truly believe that will be your salvation. The bible is a great example of pre, mid and post ideals and concepts... and I've discussed this topic in great detail with priests and pastors but not a straight answer could be given... we have lost a lot of information - don't stop believing and remember you can take and learn and practice what you will - what fills your heart with peace and joy. It is what will make each individual recognize or relate to what they absorb and can associate themselves to. Only a shift in the personal paradigm can be experienced by you and only you. I don't believe in the news and I don't believe everything I read... I will not live in fear but will rejoice my life every day and will live every day as a blessing and those that walk a mile with me as well. There is only one path... to finding oneself is to finding God you create your personal rapture on this plane... when the earth ceases to exist or the human race is extinguished is not of your control but how you walk out of this life is.

    Well, I agree with you in this, we should NOT live in fear... ever. That isn't what God wants. And we should show compassion and respect to everyone, whether they agree with our views or not. So in this we agree.
    Wondergirl's Avatar
    Wondergirl Posts: 39,354, Reputation: 5431
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    #11

    Aug 10, 2016, 08:38 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by classyT View Post
    Dave,

    I completely disagree but you know that. Just for grins answer this, if those believers who are alive and remain go through the tribulation period or whenever you think Jesus will come back, tell me this who goes into the Millennium and populates the earth? He is reigning for 1000 years. Who are the people who will populate the earth! As those who are alive and remain will be changed in a twinkle of an eye, our bodies changed forever, incorruptible like the Lord Jesus. Dead in Christ first, then us. Jesus is clear we will be like the angels and not be given in marriage. We won't be married. So who are these people who populate the earth during his reign?
    Where are you getting all this from? You've woven a tapestry from a jumble of Bible verses.
    J_9's Avatar
    J_9 Posts: 40,298, Reputation: 5646
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    #12

    Aug 10, 2016, 09:13 AM
    She has asked for opinions, yet chooses to disagree with those that do not conform to hers.
    classyT's Avatar
    classyT Posts: 1,562, Reputation: 214
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    #13

    Aug 10, 2016, 11:45 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by J_9 View Post
    She has asked for opinions, yet chooses to disagree with those that do not conform to hers.
    You are kidding? SHE DOES? Well, that is just horrible. I've never known this site to discuss opinions. She sounds like a horrible human being. Well in any event, it doesn't look like you tried to answer her at all. Just gave YOUR opinion. Go figure.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wondergirl View Post
    Where are you getting all this from? You've woven a tapestry from a jumble of Bible verses.
    Not sure this can be discussed. I guess I don't understand the rules of the site anymore.
    Wondergirl's Avatar
    Wondergirl Posts: 39,354, Reputation: 5431
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    #14

    Aug 10, 2016, 12:32 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by classyT View Post
    Not sure this can be discussed. I guess I don't understand the rules of the site anymore.
    Like dwashbur said, "Over the centuries, some people have taken this simple idea ["rapture"] and shoved a bunch of artificial theological systems on it to make it say what they want, but that's bunk. It says what it says."

    And the Book of Revelation was written to warn against Nero and the Roman Empire. Those have come and gone.

    For the record, I'm an anti-millennialist, anti-trib. I agree with Robert Frost:

    Some say the world will end in fire,
    Some say in ice.
    From what I've tasted of desire
    I hold with those who favor fire.
    But if it had to perish twice,
    I think I know enough of hate
    To say that for destruction ice
    Is also great
    And would suffice.

    I.e., the world will end when it ends. My job is to love God and, with His help, love others. I'm blessed to be a blessing. Amen.
    Precious7's Avatar
    Precious7 Posts: 333, Reputation: 61
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    #15

    Aug 10, 2016, 04:44 PM
    Can we please stick to the Main Question she asked? Instead of telling her what she should have asked or discussed. I don't think so being curious and wanting to learn more about any subjects is bad. :/ Just saying.
    Wondergirl's Avatar
    Wondergirl Posts: 39,354, Reputation: 5431
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    #16

    Aug 10, 2016, 04:50 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by Precious7 View Post
    Can we please stick to the Main Question she asked? Instead of telling her what she should have asked or discussed. I don't think so being curious and wanting to learn more about any subjects is bad. :/ Just saying.
    I did.
    Precious7's Avatar
    Precious7 Posts: 333, Reputation: 61
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    #17

    Aug 10, 2016, 04:53 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by Wondergirl View Post
    I did.
    Thank you. :)
    Wondergirl's Avatar
    Wondergirl Posts: 39,354, Reputation: 5431
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    #18

    Aug 10, 2016, 05:03 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by Precious7 View Post
    Can we please stick to the Main Question she asked? Instead of telling her what she should have asked or discussed. I don't think so being curious and wanting to learn more about any subjects is bad. :/ Just saying.
    What's YOUR belief?
    dwashbur's Avatar
    dwashbur Posts: 1,456, Reputation: 175
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    #19

    Aug 10, 2016, 07:40 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by Precious7 View Post
    Thank you. :)
    As did I.
    dwashbur's Avatar
    dwashbur Posts: 1,456, Reputation: 175
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    #20

    Aug 10, 2016, 07:46 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by J_9 View Post
    She has asked for opinions, yet chooses to disagree with those that do not conform to hers.
    SHE DID?? Well, forsooth, gadzooks, good gosh all Friday and the calves got out! How dare she disagree with opinions that are different than her own? CALL THE COPS!!

    I have no idea what your point is, or if there even is one. It sounds to me like you just want to accuse someone of something. A good question would be, why.

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