[helpmedog101]

Ok, so this may be a little long so I apologize in advance. I acquired my dog almost 3 months ago. He is a miniature pinscher and the vet said he's about 8 months - 1 year. He was found stray on the street so we have no background information on him. After having him a month we took him to be neutered not only to prevent reproduction, but to help cut down his energy level with moving non-stop and wanting to pee on everything and of course for many other reasons. I researched min pins and their needs and I understand his breed is a high energy level breed so my husband and I try to meet those needs as best as possible. We're fortunate in a sense he is energetic because it makes us more active. Unfortunately, we live in a 1.353sqft apartment so we try to take him out on walks and sometimes runs as often as we can. There are unfortunately no dog parks that we can make to during the week after work (5:30p when we get home) due to them closing at sundown to be able to take him and let him run. Basically, his weekly schedule is wake up at 6am, take outside to the bathroom, eat and water, let him be outside his cage while we're getting ready sometimes play if there's time, take out again and sometimes my husband will run with him for 10min or so, place in crate (small enough to just stand up and turn around) from 7-5 (when we work), come home and take him out, feed again at 6p, let him run and play in the apartment, take out 1-2 more times before bed, we remove his water 2-3hours before bed, place in crate around 10p or so for the night and start over. On the weekends, he's hardly in his crate except to sleep. The problem is he never has a chance to pee in the house due to us taking him out when possible but the problem is and the question late is he pees consistently everyday in his crate. He pees in it before we get home from work and if we don't take him out at 3am he pees in his crate then. It doesn't seem to bother him but it bothers us. We had to buy him a second bed so we could switch out the beds for him to have one to sleep on. We wash the beds everyday and give him a bath almost everyday due to the smell. My husband and I are getting no sleep every night due to this, which is effecting our work and we have tried everything possible to prevent it. This morning was a little different, which is why I'm writing this: He woke us up at 2am whining, crying and almost peeing himself in the crate. My husband took him out and we went back to sleep. At 10min until 5am, he woke us up again howling and crying so I got up and checked his bed and it was fine. My husband said he's probably hungry and thirsty ( he hadn't had water since around 7pm the night before to prevent peeing this early in the morning but it's not working apparently). I got up and fed him and he drank water and I decided there was no point going back to sleep when I have to wake up at 6am anyway. The removal of water, ignoring him, positive reinforcement when he goes outside, etc. is not working. We've paid to take him to a trainer but not for behavior, just for the basics like sitting, laying down, etc. because the 3am problem and peeing in the crate didn't occur until after the neutering (we took him to training before he was neutered). We don't know what to do at this point since we've tried to stay on top of everything to prevent it. I'm worried he may have some kind of bladder infection that's causing him to not be able to hold it or he's just misbehaving and we're not doing something right. It's become a routine and dogs needing a routine, I'm trying to stop it before it gets worse. I apologize for this being so long, but I wanted to be thorough in explaining everything we've tried so we know what we've missed. Thank you and we await a response.

[joypulv]

Wow, so much.
First, you got a young stray, who is bound to be anxious and may have had a horrible life, or he may have been lost from his family only a short time, and perhaps they didn't raise him right.
Second, you both work all day, making training many times more difficult, and raising his anxiety.
Third, I think his day long crate is too small. Since he is small, I would build a barrier in a corner of a room that has room to move, play with toys, have WATER at all times, and a pee area, a large plastic tray with pee pads on it. Sure he might have a UTI. My dog had once just recently and is still taking antibiotics and her need to pee has gone way way down. If your vet did the neutering, take him to another vet to ask for an opinion, because you say the peeing in the crate started after he was neutered.
He can sleep in the small crate at night, AND I would put it very near your bed.
When my small dog had surgery in Oct, she whined all night and I thought she was still in pain. Turns out she just wanted to be next to my bed instead of 3' away! She went right to sleep when I moved her.
Never deprive a dog of water. Never assume that a dog 'misbehaves' in the human sense, because it's full of implication that it's deliberate.
Paying to take a dog to a trainer is all wrong - it's the owners who have to learn how to teach the dog, not the dog alone.
If you can pay for that, you can pay for a mid-day dog walker, someone who will spend a few extra minutes cuddling and patting.
I'd go for someone in the neighborhood over a service, but the service will be bonded (make sure they are).

[Alty]

I agree with Joy.

First, you got a high energy dog, you researched the breed, and this may be because writing is not a great form of communication, but when I read your post it seems that you're not happy that he's high energy? If that's the case you may have to consider that this dog needs a home that can deal with the energy he has. Maybe a home with a stay at home mom and kids that can meet his needs. I'm not saying that to be harsh, I'm really not, but his breed and his breed inclinations, will not change. So you have to ask yourself if you want a high energy dog, and if you can meet his needs, and yours.

Peeing in the crate is never something a dog will do unless it has to. In the wild dogs never pee in their den. Not from minute one. Mom dog will take the newborn puppies outside to pee and poo. They learn from minute one. No dog will pee or poo in his crate unless it's absolutely necessary, or they were forced to do it and then it becomes a learned behavior.

So let's break it down. He's a rescue, found on the streets, between 8months - 1 year old. I recently adopted a rescue from Brazil, also found on the streets. He was found on the side of the road, his legs tied so he couldn't move, a cola bottle around his neck, with severe mange, he survived that, then got parvo. He survived that, then got tick disease, he survived that and now he's here with us. He's estimated to be between 8 months - 10 months of age. We've had him for 3 weeks tomorrow. He is not potty trained, and I don't put him in a crate. But I'm a stay at home mom, so it's not necessary. At night he sleeps with my daughter, his human. I have three dogs. Now, I do believe in crate training, and I have crate trained many of my dogs, but there are rules to crating. Also, at this point of his life, the potty training can wait. He's still learning to socialize with our family, and adapt to being in a completely different environment. He went from Brazil to Canada, to 40C to -10C. To green lush grass to snow. He's had a lot of changes. That's the nature of rescue.

Rescues are harder to crate and train. If they've been in a shelter where they're forced to be in cages, there aren't enough staff to take them outside for pee and poo breaks, or to potty train them. So they have no choice but to pee and poo where they sleep and eat. After a while it becomes a learned behavior. They don't understand what we humans want them to do, they learn it. If they're left in a crate for 10 hours a day, which is the case for your pup, they learn that when they have to pee or poo, they have no choice but to do what goes against their instincts. They learn that this is what their humans want them to do. You're training every moment, and at this point your puppy has been trained to pee and poo in the crate. That's not his fault.

Dogs have instincts, and most people that adopt dogs, or buy dogs, have no idea what those instincts are. They think that Fido poos on the carpet out of spite. No, Fido poos on the carpet because he hasn't been taught or shown any other way. He had to poo, he wasn't shown or taught where you want him to poo, so he pooed on the carpet. With a puppy from a breeder it's easier to train, if it was a good breeder, which there are sadly not enough of, and I'm much more into rescue than buying from a breeder. But a rescue dog has been trained, from minute one, to not follow it's instincts. It's been taught what humans expect, and that may include peeing and pooing in his crate, because sadly there aren't enough humans to meet the needs of every rescue that comes into a shelter.

First you have to figure out if this high energy pup is going to fit into your family. Second, having a dog in a crate for 10 hours a day, is not okay. Can you hold it for 10 hours? I doubt it. I'm pretty sure that during your work day you go to the bathroom at least once. Right? If you were chained to your desk and weren't allowed to go to the bathroom, what would happen? You'd pee and poo your pants. You'd have no choice. Your pup has no choice.

At this point your dog spends around 18 hours a day in the crate during your work week, if my math is correct. For 6 hours he's allowed to roam your little apartment, eat and drink for a few hours before water and food is cut off, and back in the crate he goes. A walk, some outside time, but for the most part he's in the crate. Again, ask yourself, if you were tied to your chair for 18 hours a day and had to pee or poo, what would happen?

No dog should spend 10 hours a day in a crate with no relief. No one can do that, not a human, not even an adult dog, but a puppy? No way! He's being forced to pee and poo in his crate because he can't hold it for 10 hours! He spends the majority of his life in a crate, a high energy dog that has to be in a crate for the majority of the day, 18 hours! So now it's become a learned behavior. He's learned that you want him to be in the crate, and you want him to pee and poo there. You've trained him to do this, and you're mad at him because he's doing what you trained him to do.

I get that people have to work. I do get it. I've been there. When we got our border collie, both my husband and I worked full time, and my kids were in school. So, when I worked, I had a 30 minute lunch break every day. During that break I'd rush home, take the puppy out of his crate for a pee and poo break, and play. I didn't eat during my break, it was about Rascal the puppy. I worked 8 hours a day. I pushed the limits. He was 2 months old, at 2 months he should have been relieved every 2 hours. It was 4 hours. I felt horrible for making him wait that long. But he never had an accident in his crate. He held it. He learned.

Who relieves your puppy during the 10 hours you're gone?

Your puppy is learning what he's been taught. He also spends way too much time being crated in a tiny crate, no food, no water, waiting for you. His needs aren't being met. This is not his fault. You need to figure this out. This doesn't require learning to sit or stay or any of that. It requires someone being there during the day for this puppy, so he can do what you expect him to do.

If you can afford a trainer, you can afford someone to come into your home twice during the day when you're gone for 10 hours, to let the puppy out, play with the puppy, and relieve some of his energy. Potty training will start with you and the person you pick. You're going to have to un-teach him what he's learned, which will take time, a lot of patience, and a lot more one on one.

At night, try letting him sleep with you instead of in his crate. He's in the crate too much of the time, he needs one on one contact.

[Dchdman]

Hello

" his weekly schedule is wake up at 6am, take outside to the bathroom, eat and water, let him be outside his cage while we're getting ready sometimes play if there's time, take out again and sometimes my husband will run with him for 10min or so, place in crate (small enough to just stand up and turn around) from 7-5 (when we work), come home and take him out, feed again at 6p, let him run and play in the apartment, take out 1-2 more times before bed, we remove his water 2-3hours before bed, place in crate around 10p or so for the night and start over. "

If I have done my maths correctly that's 18 hours in the crate for a high energy dog , un ah not happening .

A high energy dog from what I know needs 8-12 hours of attention at the minimum if not more.

At this point I would say , what crate, you will see why I say this.

" This morning was a little different, which is why I'm writing this: He woke us up at 2am whining, crying and almost peeing himself in the crate. My husband took him out and we went back to sleep. At 10min until 5am, he woke us up again howling and crying so I got up and checked his bed and it was fine. "

From reading the start of your post I was actually expecting this to happen , 18 hours in that crate possibly drove your dog nuts , that's why I said " What Crate "

Maybe you should try it , lock yourself in a cage for 18 hours to get some perspective.

" he's just misbehaving and we're not doing something right. "

Put yourself in your dog shoes , I would be thinking " I'am over this crap , let me the hell out "

Of course he could be misbehaving , I would to if I'am locked in a cage for 18 hours and only get a few hours with my owners to do stuff.

Anyway enough of that we need to decide a course of action.

The Crate should only be used as a sleeping area with the door to it open , so he can come and go.

You need to set aside an area for him with room to run around , fence an area off if you have to with a area for him to do his business in.

" I acquired my dog almost 3 months ago. "

This is when training of any kind should have started , it's good your going to a trainer for the basics like you said , though potty training should have also be done here to.

From what I understand when you do take him out he does his business here and there wherever you take him to do it , which is good as you started teaching him to do his business outside of the apartment or potty training , though 18 hours in the crate, it all went out the window.

So now I'am going to paint a picture for you of possibly what your dog is thinking during the 10 hours your gone ( The longest time your gone ) .

" When are they going to be back , When are they going to be back , when are they going to be back " " Need to pee , need to pee , need to pee " " Getting harder , Getting harder , Getting Harder " " Can't wait any longer , Can't wait any longer , Can't wait anylonger " " Oh hell with this " Ahhhhhhhhhhhh Much better ( when he finally decided to pee or poo ) .

I don't blame him for now peeing consistently everyday in his crate , you try holding for 10 hours.

Could it be a UTI , yes it could due to the conditions he is in though a vet would have to do tests.

Now I have read the above posts and agree , you need someone to come in during the day and take him outside to do his business and even play with him for a few hours, this is the only way to actually start his potty training right.

And I'll leave it at that as the others have already said the rest.

BTW Note = I've done many things in my life to gain perspective , spent over a month as a homeless person, living and doing what they did while raising money for a homeless center , lived in a cage with my dog no more than the size of a Single sized mattress plus other things.

I also suggest you view this ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5mmj_-txwt8 )

Also note = I am not blaming you for this , we all have to work , though you need to see it from his point of view aswell.

Hope this helps.

[J_9]

During the 10 or more hours from the time you leave for work until you get home, how many times do you use the restroom? How often do you eat or drink during that time? You are effectively refusing your dog the rights you reserve for yourself.

Having an active dog requires having active pet parents. Would you place your baby, human baby, in a crib for 18 hours a day? This puppy is still a baby that craves human attention, cannot hold its bladder or bowels over a 10 hour period, and needs PLENTY of exercise.

I think your heart is in the right place, but I wonder if you realized the amount of work it takes to take care of a high maintenance puppy, especially in an apartment. A dog of this nature needs several hours per day to run wild, wear itself out. It needs more attention than it appears, from your work schedules, that you are capable of providing.

My advice may be slightly different if you were raising a boxer, for example, as they don't have quite the energy level as a min-pin. Just having a dog spayed or neutered isn't going to decrease their energy at this young age. You can expect that over the next year or so. It doesn't happen overnight.

I'm wondering if this is your first dog?